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Houston Rockets general manager apologises for Hong Kong protest tweet

reuters.com

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Re: Houston Rockets general manager apologises for Hong Kong protest tweet

#61

Post by simonh »

alkonaut wrote: post #50
simonh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't with angering dictatorships, it's about angering a lot of ordinary Chinese mainlanders who have been convinced that the HK protesters are traitors. This is a serious problem, because it's simply not possible to persuade them otherwise, because the channels to do so are censored by the Chinese government. It's a crazily scary issue. My family is half Chinese and my niece came over from China this sum…

The NBA has to leave the money on the table in china, OR they need to be the source of information that the chinese are missing (Such as in this case). The third option is to effectively apply the censorshop of the issues from the Chinese government, to people in the US.

>OR they need to be the source of information that the chinese are missing...

That's exactly what I am advocating, in a smart way that effectively counters the CCP narrative.

Re: Houston Rockets general manager apologises for Hong Kong protest tweet

#62

Post by simonh »

hos234 wrote: post #41
simonh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't with angering dictatorships, it's about angering a lot of ordinary Chinese mainlanders who have been convinced that the HK protesters are traitors. This is a serious problem, because it's simply not possible to persuade them otherwise, because the channels to do so are censored by the Chinese government. It's a crazily scary issue. My family is half Chinese and my niece came over from China this sum…

So where did these conversations go? Just curious if she is heading back more aware or more confused.

More aware. She's over here for a few years studying as a postgraduate.

Re: Houston Rockets general manager apologises for Hong Kong protest tweet

#63

Post by UIZealot »

missosoup wrote: post #52
UIZealot wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have claimed there are 2 systems, yet they kidnap people in HK. They kidnapped one person, as far as I know. I agree they crossed the line there, and there's no excuse for that. But that's an exception, not the norm. > They have said they were not behind the Extradition Law, and yet they force our government's hand. Where's the evidence they are behind that? How are they forcing the HK government's hand? > The…

> They kidnapped one person, as far as I know. You don't know much, which is why you're being downvoted. The extradition law that sparked these protests was a formalisation/legalisation of a decade long string of kidnappings with increasing frequency and visibility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causeway_Bay_Books_disappearan... https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/kidnap-03012019112417... https://www.scmp.com/news…

Thanks for filling in the information. So there're two confirmed cases, and an alleged failed kidnap attempt.

But these are still exceptional cases, the vast majority of HK people have no reason to fear the same fate.

> The extradition law that sparked these protests was a formalisation/legalisation of a decade long string of kidnappings with increasing frequency and visibility.

Where are the reports to back up this "a decade long string of kidnappings"? Or are there just the same three cases?

Where's the evidence China was behind the extradition law?

In any case, the extradition law has been officially (announced to be) withdrawn. Stop using it to justify the continuing and escalating violence and destruction.

Re: Houston Rockets general manager apologises for Hong Kong protest tweet

#64

Post by PavlovsCat »

simonh wrote: post #34
PavlovsCat wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's tough, but I think the best approach, if you do want to express support for HK, is instead to focus on the Censorship of the issues by the Chinese government. So basically we can't talk about things to Westerners like we would, because Chinese citizens might overhear on the web and freak out? And not complying is us interfering? What if suggesting so would get you ostracized in democracies? If you had to pick…

I haven't down voted you, and here's my reply. I'm just showing how this is perceived from a mainlander perspective, and why people that could be allies have been manipulated into a confrontational stance. I think the best way to fight this is to point out the way they have been manipulated. It's a matter of tactics. I'm making a suggestion, that's all. > And not complying is us interfering? That is how it is perceiv…

> This is a trap set by the CCP. When your enemy lays a trap, saying "I'm completely entitled to go where that trap is, nobody's going to impinge on my rights of free passage" and then walking straight into the trap doesn't help anybody.

I was talking about using Western media to talk to a our friends and within our societies though. The trap might also be being chilled into giving up our freedom to think, and therefore to act, and to be in solidarity with those who need and deserve it.

I agree that "Free Hong Kong" is not a good slogan, and that mixing up the Chinese and the CCP is doing the CCP's work for them, and I also think that explaining that secession is not meant here isn't "appeasement" either. If you mean those things with "trap", I agree. But not insofar as just "speaking freely" is concerned.

I mean, it's not like the CCP wouldn't come up with things to keep people in line in absence of Westerners saying offensive things, or that even the most moderate and well reasoned argument that isn't revisionist and obedient to the whims of the CCP, cannot somehow be twisted into being offensive. So the way I see it, we'd lose something crucial and valuable if we censored ourselves, and would gain little to nothing, since that wouldn't change the mind of the CCP or loosen its grip.

> I'm saying attack the real target - the Chinese Communist Party.

I agree with that 100%, and I harbor no ill feelings towards the Chinese people as such. But the context isn't someone denigrating all Chinese people, it's someone showing solidarity with the Chinese people in Hong Kong. Though I agree that "trolling China" is a terrible suggestion, and don't troll the CCP either, resist and call it out in no unclear terms.

Re: Houston Rockets general manager apologises for Hong Kong protest tweet

#65

Post by missosoup »

UIZealot wrote: post #63
missosoup wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They kidnapped one person, as far as I know. You don't know much, which is why you're being downvoted. The extradition law that sparked these protests was a formalisation/legalisation of a decade long string of kidnappings with increasing frequency and visibility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causeway_Bay_Books_disappearan... https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/kidnap-03012019112417... https://www.scmp.com/news…

Thanks for filling in the information. So there're two confirmed cases, and an alleged failed kidnap attempt. But these are still exceptional cases, the vast majority of HK people have no reason to fear the same fate. > The extradition law that sparked these protests was a formalisation/legalisation of a decade long string of kidnappings with increasing frequency and visibility. Where are the reports to back up this…

You are discarding the kidnapping of five HK nationals from HK which alone would be enough to spark a major international incident anywhere else. You were given the evidence that you asked for and your only response is to ask for more of the same and double down on your viewpoint despite it being contradicted by the information you were just given.

Would you reconsider your viewpoint even if you were given an entire essay detailing everything you just asked for? If you can honestly say yes, I'll consider it. But I have a feeling there isn't enough evidence in the world for you.

I can't reconcile your comments with conscionable good-faith behaviour that's commonplace on HN.

Re: Houston Rockets general manager apologises for Hong Kong protest tweet

#66

Post by mytailorispoor1 »

UIZealot wrote: post #48
mytailorisrich wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are anti-CCP Why do you attack the flag of the country (and even the flag of HK) rather than the flag of the party (there is one), then? > Not a single one of them is about independence nor are any anti-China. Then you should stop actions that look anti-China even when they are reported on media like the BBC... Edit: No answers to these questions, just downvotes... Some might say this speaks louder than words.

People who speak Mandarin are regularly harassed, told to "go back to Mainland", and attacked physically. Even Cantonese speaking local HKers, who tried to remove roadblocks (so their vehicles could pass) set up by the protesters, were regularly attacked.

> People who speak Mandarin are regularly harassed, told to "go back to Mainland", and attacked physically.

I don't disagree there is some racism going on in some areas in Hong Kong. But it is definitely not the normal. You will definite not see that behavior in the financial district.

But its no different that some Beijingers thinking southern people are barbarians is it? You simply ignore and move on.

> Even Cantonese speaking local HKers, who tried to remove roadblocks (so their vehicles could pass) set up by the protesters, were regularly attacked.

This is clearly bias. Given, the only people that would try to remove roadblocks are pro-china people. Most local HK people avoid the protest areas and stay indoors.

Re: Houston Rockets general manager apologises for Hong Kong protest tweet

#67

Post by mytailorispoor1 »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #60
throw0101a wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you attack the flag of the country (and even the flag of HK) rather than the flag of the party, then? It seems to me, that in China to attack the party is to attack the state, and vice verse. To quote France's Louis XIV: L'état, c'est moi. Am I incorrect?

Very clearly, attacking the flag is seen as attacking the country... Especially when some other protesters also wave foreign flags. As mentioned, the party actually has a flag, if they wanted to make things beyond doubt.

The fact you actually have to mention there is a flag means most people don't know about it. As a someone that has lived in Hong Kong for the last 10 years, even I didn't know this flag exist. Searching online, I cannot say the flag is immediately recognizable.

Maybe the protestors should use the CCP flag instead, but I would give them the benefit of the doubt.

Re: Houston Rockets general manager apologises for Hong Kong protest tweet

#68

Post by dirtyid »

missosoup wrote: post #32
mytailorisrich wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The protests are no longer about the extradition law. It has been fully withdrawn. The current violent (and often visibly anti-China) actions ensure that the mainland's public opinion fully supports the government in taking a tough and inflexible stance against the protesters as long as violence and disturbances continue. The protesters should take a page from Gandhi's book: You couldn't fault him. In HK the governme…

You mean as long as PLA keeps planting undercover operatives amongst the protesters as agent provocateurs to incite the violence that's then used as an excuse for a 'harder' stance? Please, ask me for sources. I have probably over a hundred unspinnable photos and videos collected from r/HongKong by now. New ones keep coming every day. Here's an appetiser: https://i.redd.it/0o2411874tj31.jpg

https://streamable.com/z37ja?fbclid=IwAR1DHWadBHifPc14DiHwzP...

Here's a video of the same protester shooting the airsoft glock on the bridge where they threw molotovs. You can keep trying to spin your "unspinnable" photos taken out of context, people have been trying non-stop. But the fact remains that despite overwhelmingly biased western MSM support of the protesters, no mainstream outlet has endorsed these paranoid PLA agent provocateur narrative, or the many other outrageous misinformation attempts especially by r/HongKong users (Legco was inside job, look at the commissioner watch and other extremely stupid conspiracy theories). Confidently believing /r/HongKong is a reliable source of information is media literacy 101 tier ignorance.

Re: Houston Rockets general manager apologises for Hong Kong protest tweet

#69

Post by mytailorisrich »

mytailorispoor1 wrote: post #67
mytailorisrich wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very clearly, attacking the flag is seen as attacking the country... Especially when some other protesters also wave foreign flags. As mentioned, the party actually has a flag, if they wanted to make things beyond doubt.

The fact you actually have to mention there is a flag means most people don't know about it. As a someone that has lived in Hong Kong for the last 10 years, even I didn't know this flag exist. Searching online, I cannot say the flag is immediately recognizable. Maybe the protestors should use the CCP flag instead, but I would give them the benefit of the doubt.

Chinese know that there is a party flag. I have to explain to you, I don't have to explain to Chinese people.

By the way, the flag is very prominently displayed in the annual 1st October parade along with the PLA flag (do you know about that one?), in addition to the country flag.

I'm sure they also know what it means to fly the HK British colonial flag, the Union Jack, etc.

It goes beyond the benefit of the doubt...

For someone who claims to have lived in China for 10 years you seem very not curious about your environment and its history.

Re: Houston Rockets general manager apologises for Hong Kong protest tweet

#70

Post by UIZealot »

missosoup wrote: post #65
UIZealot wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for filling in the information. So there're two confirmed cases, and an alleged failed kidnap attempt. But these are still exceptional cases, the vast majority of HK people have no reason to fear the same fate. > The extradition law that sparked these protests was a formalisation/legalisation of a decade long string of kidnappings with increasing frequency and visibility. Where are the reports to back up this…

You are discarding the kidnapping of five HK nationals from HK which alone would be enough to spark a major international incident anywhere else. You were given the evidence that you asked for and your only response is to ask for more of the same and double down on your viewpoint despite it being contradicted by the information you were just given. Would you reconsider your viewpoint even if you were given an entire…

I counted three, now you're telling there are five. But I believe you.

I didn't discard anything, I never said kidnappings are OK.

Neither are your violence and destruction. Stop justifying your own evil with China's.

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