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Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

cleantechnica.com

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Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#221

Post by the8472 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #174
socialdemocrat wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can reduce CO2 emissions from an internal combustion by making it more efficient, but there is not way you can ever bring it down to zero. Thus if you want to ever get to zero, you need to electrify the transport. We can produce synthetic fuel, but it will be very hard to reach the kind of volumes we have for fossil fuels, hence synthetic fuels should only be used for long range trucks, airplanes etc. All transpo…

> You can reduce CO2 emissions from an internal combustion by making it more efficient, but there is not way you can ever bring it down to zero. You can bring the net environmental impact of CO2 to zero by using a fuel with a carbon neutral cycle, such as biofuels; if you are regrowing as much source material as you are consuming, there is no net emission. > Thus if you want to ever get to zero, you need to electrify…

> such as biofuels

Those have been tried and found competing with food production and forest land (which we also need to keep CO2 locked up). Currently they're not a viable strategy as things stand. Perhaps this might change in the future, but the path is not clear. For EVs on the other hand the path is more well defined.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#222

Post by jansan »

cloudwalking wrote: post #171
xyzzyz wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s no surprise, since Norwegian government heavily penalizes ICE vehicles, and advantages the electric cars. No VAT, no CO2 tax, and lots of other incentives are involved. If your goal is to upgrade your country’s vehicle fleet to electric, then Norway is a good example that with enough government spending it can happen. Don’t mistake it for “normal people jumping onboard electric train”, though, they are jumping…

Model 3 appears to be the #6 best selling car in USA last quarter* and I don't believe there is much of any USA tax incentive anymore. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/06/tesla-model-3-6th-best-...

Keep in mind that the best selling passenger vehicles are not called "car" in the US statistics, but "light trucks". The number of light trucks sold in September 2019 is almost three times the number of "passenger cars".

https://www.marklines.com/en/statistics/flash_sales/salesfig...

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#223

Post by avar »

chrisseaton wrote: post #193
AnonymousPlanet wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An electrical car produces almost as much fine dust particles as an internal combustion engine. This is utter nonsense. Electric vehicles have no direct emissions, including no direct emissions of fine dust. You are confusing this with emissions during production. My point is about emissions at the location of a car's use. > The CO2 and NOx combustion engines produces are not that dangerous to our health. If this w…

> This is utter nonsense. Electric vehicles have no direct emissions, including no direct emissions of fine dust. Have you ever changed a tire on Tesla because it was worn down? Where do you think the rubber in the old tire went when it was worn down? Emitted into the environment, that’s where.

The GP is obviously wrong about EVs emitting no fine dust, see my sibling comment, but we're talking about fine dust, i.e. PM10 dust.

The study my comment links to notes that only 0.1-10% (depending on conditions) of tire wear meets that criteria, the rest are all more coarse particles.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#224

Post by goshx »

jansan wrote: post #222
cloudwalking wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Model 3 appears to be the #6 best selling car in USA last quarter* and I don't believe there is much of any USA tax incentive anymore. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/06/tesla-model-3-6th-best-...

Keep in mind that the best selling passenger vehicles are not called "car" in the US statistics, but "light trucks". The number of light trucks sold in September 2019 is almost three times the number of "passenger cars". https://www.marklines.com/en/statistics/flash_sales/salesfig...

Tesla is heading that direction too with Model Y coming out next year and the truck they are expected to announce in November. This will be interesting to watch.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#225

Post by kjksf »

steelframe wrote: post #202
amelius wrote: post #196

At what point will it become a safety issue if X% of cars in a multi-story garage are electric, considering both the fire-safety of batteries and their weight?

> considering both the fire-safety Some people may jump on you about the fire-safety of Tesla cars (or BEVs in general), but I want to get ahead of that with a link to the Highway Loss Data Institute's December 2018 report for 2016-2018 motor vehicles, where the Tesla Model X had a RCF (Relative Claim Frequency) of 192, the second-worse score for vehicles in its class, and the Tesla Model S had a RCF of 140, the wors…

There's lies, damn lies and statistics.

Yes, Model X (at 192) is second highest in its class.

It's also better than any passenger car in top 10 (lowest at 204) and better than any pickup truck in top 10 (lowest at 205).

So if we care about fire safety, we should replace every passenger car and pick up with the "terrible" Model X.

Also worth noting that, to my knowledge, there wasn't a single non-crash fire in Model 3, which points to a dramatic improvement in battery safety from Model S/X to Model 3, even from the baseline of "much better than most passenger cars and pick up trucks".

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#226

Post by the8472 »

playing_colours wrote: post #103
AnonymousPlanet wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is a very densely populated country (go take a look at map). Even a relatively minor accident at a nuclear facility would trigger a huge evacuation (I've seen the disaster control plans), causing major economic harm. Germany also does not have any viable means to store nuclear waste responsibly. Currently, nuclear does not look like the sane option for Germany.

We do not have unquestionable alternatives to nuclear in Germany for generating electricity to power an industrial country on a stable rate. The demand for power will additionally grow with adoption of electric cars. For densely populated industrial country in Germany’s climate zone using renewables can be disasterous - we already pay too much for electricity, wind and solar panels are space-inefficient, we does not…

> wind and solar panels are space-inefficient

Wind does not take up much space. You can place them in agricultural areas, at seas or even in mountain highlands.

Solar placed on roofs or over parking spaces does not compete with anything for space either. Even installing it on grasslands is less terrible than it seems, it does not create deserts because enough sunlight gets through between the panels to let planets grow in the shade.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#227

Post by V_Terranova_Jr »

zaroth wrote: post #130
TicklishTiger wrote: post #7

The one thing I really can not get over with Tesla is the dashboard. That giant screen that looks so misplaced. Cars always used to be the pinnacle of thought out design. And Tesla is supposed to be catering the more stylish crowd I think. I wonder how they decided to place a standard screen to the right of the driver. It will be interesting to see if other car manufacturers will adopt this design decision. Then it w…

I find the Tesla Model 3 aesthetically beautiful, and other cars rather grotesque in comparison. It’s extremely forward thinking and intelligent design, allowing for the user experience to constantly improve and be enhanced with the regular software updates to come down. There are now dozens of features in my car which didn’t even exist when I bought it. UI refinements actually improve my driving experience one month…

Counterpoint, as a Model 3 owner.

The lack of tactile controls for things like climate controls, sound system, etc., is very frustrating. I find myself having to mess around with the touchscreen much more than I'd like while driving. You get used to the central screen in lieu of a traditional dashboard pretty quickly, but I'd prefer more traditional dashboard functions to be aligned to display(s) on the driver's side.

I despise the lack of a traditional keyfob or non-phone means of locking/unlocking the car other than the awkward keycard (only useful through the driver's side).

It represents an extremely opinionated way of doing things. If you love life with your iPhone and Apple's extremely opinionated way about how it should work and how you should work with it, the Model 3 gives you something approaching that. Smartphones have their utility, but I'm not the kind of person that lives my digital life through one. I therefore have no love for the idea of my car as a roadgoing smartphone. I also couldn't possibly give less of a shit over Autopilot as we are so far away from that technology being rigorous.

Interior materials, particularly the carpet, are cheap.

There are also significant privacy implications associated with the connectivity, which Tesla does not do enough to address.

Things I do enjoy: the refreshing minimalism, the styling (though body panel alignment still has room to improve), and the energy & drivetrain technology. It is definitely enjoyable to drive. Driving our other combustion engine hybrid is a steep step backward into a cruder era.

Bottom line: Tesla's energy & drivetrain technology are years ahead of other manufacturers; if that matters to you, there is no current package like Tesla's. I look forward to the time when more traditional auto manufacturers catch up and I have well-engineered choices that don't require me to live with Tesla/Elon's opinions on how an EV should work.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#228

Post by callalex »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #187
ryanSrich wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, price also holds people back. An entry level Tesla with autopilot is still north of $40k after taxes (even with the break).

Average price of a new car in the US is $37k. 17 million new cars a year sold in the US. Price isn’t as big of an issue as it’s made to be. If you can’t afford a Tesla, you probably should only be looking at affordable used cars anyway (like a Toyota or Honda for $10k-$20k).

That’s the average but what’s the median? The long tail on new car prices crosses multiple orders of magnitude.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#229

Post by marvin »

aerodude wrote: post #180
cj wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, price of gas is 2.5x higher in Norway than somewhere like the USA. If you're in the USA and fill your tank once a week, you probably spend ~$2000/yr in gas. And that's how much you'd save in gas if you went electric. In areas with higher fuel prices, the incentive is proportionally larger. (That's ignoring the cost of paying your electric bill, not sure if that changes the math much..)

>If you're in the USA and fill your tank once a week, you probably spend ~$2000/yr in gas. And that's how much you'd save in gas if you went electric. The electric bill makes a big difference, because you're really looking at the relative cost of two different forms of energy -- electrical and chemical (fuel). The last time I calculated it, the cost of running an ICE was around 20% more expensive (in my area) than a…

Anecdotally, thousands of Norwegians have a Tesla as their only car. The Supercharger network makes long trips completely painless, practically equivalent with an ICE vehicle.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#230

Post by btgeekboy »

tcmb wrote: post #18

I live in an apartment complex in Berlin. We have a parking garage that belongs to the complex. Unfortunately the housing company does not allow installation of a wallbox in the garage, even if I paid for it myself. The housing company is owned by the municipality. Large-scale adoption of electric cars is unrealistic when the majority of people have nowhere to charge it.

Agree. Only now that I own a home in a suburb (and therefore own my garage) would I consider buying electric. My previous 3 apartments all had no provisions for charging overnight.
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