It's time to ban cars from Manhattan? • Hacker News Board

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#251

Post by jacques_chester » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 4:09 PM UTC

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #73

mattmanser wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your legs also solve the first and last mile problem.

Most of the comments mentioned very good reasons were legs were an unsuitable solution - carrying art, cameras or other equipment. All of this produces economic value and cannot realistically be carried 5 blocks. If you are an able bodied 20-something then public transport already solves the transport of your body. But it's not just for transporting an adult - it's for children, economics and more

I see children on the subway every day. I see folks with camera or audio equipment on the subway every week.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#252

Post by ravitation » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 4:09 PM UTC

jacques_chester wrote: post #247

ravitation wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Significant sections of train lines are selectively closed at night and modified on weekends all the time for maintenance and improvements.

Don't you dare suggest that it was hyperbole.

Will I be voted out of office?

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#253

Post by msla » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

acd wrote: post #52

I think cars should be banned from most densely populated city centers in general. There is a word describing it "Pedestrianization" Reasoning: Cars pollute the air which makes the people living and walking in the city centers sick. Cars pollute with noise. Cars cause pedestrian and bicycle accidents. Its nice for peoples health to be able to walk and run in open areas. Streets which previously was used by cars can b…

I suppose there's nothing saying the city has to be accessible to the housebound, as destroying car transit would surely destroy home delivery.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#254

Post by msla » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 4:13 PM UTC

romwell wrote: post #117

ekianjo wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reasoning: Cars pollute the air which makes the people living and walking in the city centers sick. Cars pollute with noise. Cars cause pedestrian and bicycle accidents. So this means that densely populated areas are not welcome for older people, like the ones who can't really walk as much anymore? Interesting way to discriminate.

I have two words for you: mobility scooters. If you want more words, let's look into "public transportation", "paratransit", "vehicles that are not cars", "walking canes", and "false dichotomy". In other words, the answer to your question is "no", and the proposed solution is friendlier towards people who are old enough to have difficulty walking (and some of whom maybe shouldn't drive anyway).

So you're going to allow people to run delivery services in busses? Because how else can you deliver to the housebound? Bikes are out: They're not allowed on pedestrian areas, and you can't haul much on one anyway. Electric scooters are out for the same reasons, as are "mobility" scooters.

I suppose there's no law saying you have to allow the housebound to live in a region.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#255

Post by adrianN » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 4:22 PM UTC

erik_seaberg wrote: post #47

rocqua wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Induced demand means that more roads won't fix traffic. It will however, mean more people get to travel. There is real value in that.

Latent demand does exist (not "induced", it was always there!) but it isn't infinite. There's a point where you could actually have enough supply. They just don't want to spend that much money and knock down that many buildings (give up Manhattan's density), so they say it wouldn't work.

Sure, if you replace everything that makes people want to go to a place with more roads, then eventually supply will match demand.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#256

Post by jurassic » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 4:25 PM UTC

souterrain wrote: post #145

geofft wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in Manhattan and live in Brooklyn, and my office overlooks the Holland Tunnel (connection to New Jersey). Roads are a backlogged mess every evening, where "evening" on Friday seems to start at noon. Traffic cops are in a half-dozen intersections around the Holland Tunnel entrance manually restricting flow and more importantly rerouting cars to keep all the possible entrance routes roughly balanced. The vast ma…

It’s mind boggling how much affordable parking there is in Manhattan. I was doing some work in Staten Island and had an appointment in Manhattan later in the day, leaving via NJ, so I drove and was able to find parking for less than $50 in the financial district. This should have been impossible, and I should have been forced to leave my car where it was, take a bus to St. George, and get on the ferry.

If you convert to monthly at that daily rate, parking costs $1550/month. If you figure your car’s share of the space in the garage is on the order of ~250 sq ft (the space itself plus a portion of the lanes in the garage), that seems about inline with what studio apartment housing goes for (quick google search turned up 500 sf studios in the $2500-$3000 range)

I’m just loosely estimating here but $50/day for vehicle storage seems like about what I would expect it to cost based on other land use in Manhattan. But of course none of it would be possible without a massive subsidy in the form of public road access.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#257

Post by CydeWeys » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

missosoup wrote: post #193

CydeWeys wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you definitely don't have exceptions for taxis. Why are you saying that we wouldn't survive without taxis?? I almost never take them except to the airport, and I'm easily willing to give that up if it means I don't have to tangle with horrible congested car traffic on a daily basis. Do you live in Manhattan? What makes you so sure we couldn't survive without taxis, given that we have the densest subway network in…

> What makes you so sure we couldn't survive without taxis, given that we have the densest subway network in the United States, even more bus lines than that, and Citibike? lmao imagine high paid consultants politicians and tv celebrities on Citibike.

Plenty of them already take the subway, and the rest of them will too once cars aren't an option.

Am I supposed to feel sorry for them for having to take the subway with the rest of us plebes? They don't deserve any better than the rest of us.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#258

Post by jogjayr » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 4:31 PM UTC

msla wrote: post #254

romwell wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have two words for you: mobility scooters. If you want more words, let's look into "public transportation", "paratransit", "vehicles that are not cars", "walking canes", and "false dichotomy". In other words, the answer to your question is "no", and the proposed solution is friendlier towards people who are old enough to have difficulty walking (and some of whom maybe shouldn't drive anyway).

So you're going to allow people to run delivery services in busses? Because how else can you deliver to the housebound? Bikes are out: They're not allowed on pedestrian areas, and you can't haul much on one anyway. Electric scooters are out for the same reasons, as are "mobility" scooters. I suppose there's no law saying you have to allow the housebound to live in a region.

> you can't haul much on [a bike] anyway.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. Here's someone moving a fridge (!) on a bike trailer.[1] And that's on a regular bike, not an e-bike.

1. https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/06/23/how-to-carry-majo...

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#259

Post by rsync » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 4:31 PM UTC

maxsilver wrote: post #172

megablast wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What everyone who has done this and does not have a car does. Why do people pretend there are situations they can't live without a car, when most people in the world do it, and even a lot of people in your city do it.

> Why do people pretend there are situations they can't live without a car, Because 95% of Americans truly can't live without a car. If you banned cars today, I could never get to work, never see my family, my child could never attend school, we could never get groceries, and within two weeks we would all become broke and homeless. This situation described 94% of the people in my city (population around 1 million) >…

"And we have that in my city too. About 3% of people here are wealthy enough that they can judiciously rewire their entire life to support "car-free" living."

Genuinely curious - what city do you live in ?

Thank you.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#260

Post by pentae » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 4:38 PM UTC

jacques_chester wrote: post #249

pentae wrote: post #150

I believe our governments should designate a new class of Urban car, similar to the Japanese "Kei cars". The "Urban EV" would have to meet strict requirements: Electric Vehicles only, within a small size of footprint (smart car sized) and have pedestrian anti collision safety features. The EVs could have cargo trays as well for deliveries. Pedestrian zones with Urban EV access (scooters, ebikes included) could utilis…

Freeing road space with smaller cars are equivalent to adding roads. You wind up with the same induced demand problems and it is still stupendously less efficient than buses, trains and pedestrian space. The same goes for folks waving self-driving cars as a magical talisman that will "fix" car traffic. You can't fix car traffic. You can only replace it with different modes of transport.

You make good points but its not ‘all or nothing’. Small, efficient modes of transport like bicycles, ebikes and scooters attached to sharing apps is a correct step forward in urban mobility.

If we zoned cities pedestrians first with smart public transport we have plenty of room for ‘ev bike lanes’ for small personal mobility vehicles across huge areas (think 14 x 14 city blocks) it would look vastly different to the congestion you are describing from cars owning the spaces