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It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

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Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#141

Post by melling »

geofft wrote: post #109
ThomPete wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manhattan is different in that it connects New Jersey and Brooklyn into a super region, they are dependent on each other to thrive. Banning cars would be an absurd nightmare at least in this situation.

I work in Manhattan and live in Brooklyn, and my office overlooks the Holland Tunnel (connection to New Jersey). Roads are a backlogged mess every evening, where "evening" on Friday seems to start at noon. Traffic cops are in a half-dozen intersections around the Holland Tunnel entrance manually restricting flow and more importantly rerouting cars to keep all the possible entrance routes roughly balanced. The vast ma…

We need a lot more subways. And they need to extend into NJ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Subway_Extension

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#142

Post by cagenut »

megablast wrote: post #100
afarrell wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does someone do if they twist their ankle badly and are on crutches for a month?

What everyone who has done this and does not have a car does. Why do people pretend there are situations they can't live without a car, when most people in the world do it, and even a lot of people in your city do it.

my theory is its rooted in this: https://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/13/science/when-the-brain-sa...

people who spend an hour+ a day for years on end in their car have mentally expanded their subconscious definition of themselves, their corporal being, with the skin of the car. this is a necessary mental process to prevent them from clipping mailboxes and 'rubbing paint' with other drivers that they then can't really "turn off". its why road-rage reactions are on a par with being physically assaulted or threatened, and its why whenever we talk about shifting public space and roads from cars to anything else they feel personally threatened and attacked.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#143

Post by Merrill »

This seems to ignore freight.

First, since there are no freight railroads into Manhattan; everything consumed by the residents and the much larger daytime population has to arrive by truck. Most freight into Manhattan comes via the Hudson River bridges and tunnels since the container port is in New Jersey and the rail yards are also there. There is little barge traffic, although I think that garbage is barged out via an East River pier. Given the density of population in Manhattan, which doubles to 4 million during the daytime hours, the freight requirements are large and trucks and vans are a considerable part of the existing traffic bringing goods to Manhattan and then distributing them around the borough.

Second, Brooklyn, Queens and the rest of Long Island are also supplied mainly by trucking crossing Manhattan from the same Hudson River bridges and tunnels, as well as via the Goethals and Verrazzano bridge or via the Tappan Zee bridge. Rail freight goes north to near Albany and then back south with only very limited connections for freight on the Long Island Railroad. Eliminating truck traffic across Manhattan would substantially increase costs for Brooklyn, Queens, and the rest of Long Island.

There have been proposals to put a rail freight tunnel under New York Harbor from roughly Bayonne to Bay Ridge, but there is no perceptible progress. Even with a tunnel, the LIRR third rail system is incompatible with modern container well cars and clearances are not adequate without a great deal of replacement of bridges, etc.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#145

Post by souterrain »

geofft wrote: post #109
ThomPete wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manhattan is different in that it connects New Jersey and Brooklyn into a super region, they are dependent on each other to thrive. Banning cars would be an absurd nightmare at least in this situation.

I work in Manhattan and live in Brooklyn, and my office overlooks the Holland Tunnel (connection to New Jersey). Roads are a backlogged mess every evening, where "evening" on Friday seems to start at noon. Traffic cops are in a half-dozen intersections around the Holland Tunnel entrance manually restricting flow and more importantly rerouting cars to keep all the possible entrance routes roughly balanced. The vast ma…

It’s mind boggling how much affordable parking there is in Manhattan. I was doing some work in Staten Island and had an appointment in Manhattan later in the day, leaving via NJ, so I drove and was able to find parking for less than $50 in the financial district.

This should have been impossible, and I should have been forced to leave my car where it was, take a bus to St. George, and get on the ferry.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#146

Post by izacus »

acd wrote: post #52

I think cars should be banned from most densely populated city centers in general. There is a word describing it "Pedestrianization" Reasoning: Cars pollute the air which makes the people living and walking in the city centers sick. Cars pollute with noise. Cars cause pedestrian and bicycle accidents. Its nice for peoples health to be able to walk and run in open areas. Streets which previously was used by cars can b…

My home city (capital of the country) did exactly that and it brought a huge amount of life and new businesses to the city center. Not to mention that tourism exploded as well - the city center is now a very pleasant place to go out and grab a coffee next to a river or on a street with no loud and smelly traffic to be seen (picture during summer: https://files.stocky.ai/uploads/2019/01/image-Preseren-squar... )

Of course, the locals were throwing an absolute fit when the change came: "We won't be able to move furniture!", "What will the emergency vehicles do?", "How will old people cope?", "It will ruin the real-estate market!", "OH the humanity, who will WALK all the way from a parking spot?!"

Turns out - it worked exceedingly well. We need more of this.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#147

Post by izacus »

throwaway122378 wrote: post #131
kachnuv_ocasek wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of which there are orders of magnitude fewer, though.

Throw in taxis, Uber, lyft and you have all your cars again. A city like Manhattan would not make it without taxis

Why not? Aren't people capable of walking for a few blocks?

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#149

Post by kiliantics »

throwaway122378 wrote: post #131
kachnuv_ocasek wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of which there are orders of magnitude fewer, though.

Throw in taxis, Uber, lyft and you have all your cars again. A city like Manhattan would not make it without taxis

I don't see why, I can get by there just fine without taxis...

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#150

Post by pentae »

I believe our governments should designate a new class of Urban car, similar to the Japanese "Kei cars".

The "Urban EV" would have to meet strict requirements: Electric Vehicles only, within a small size of footprint (smart car sized) and have pedestrian anti collision safety features.

The EVs could have cargo trays as well for deliveries.

Pedestrian zones with Urban EV access (scooters, ebikes included) could utilise a small bike lane sized road down the middle of the pedestrian areas with dotted lines to keep the EV traffic moving efficiently. Despite this, pedestrians and vehicles will be maneuvering around each other. Of course, EV's would be expected to give way to pedestrians by law.

Urban EV zones could eventually also be linked together with bike lanes and tunnels.

This would simultaneously make for more cyclist friendly cities while accommodating and making far more modern, social and interesting urban environments.

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