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The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

marketwatch.com

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Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#51

Post by sandworm101 »

maxerickson wrote: post #27
prepend wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the way we take care of people is by providing many diverse training paths and transparency. Not just college age programs but lifelong learning where it’s possible to learn to code or weld or teach or whatever. Our libraries and community colleges should include more low cost certification and structured learning programs where people can explore interests. I think this is very different from the high cost 4…

What skills are people going to learn in a week that employers aren't already willing to provide training for? Are things so broken on the employer side that they won't take a 1 week risk on a new hire?

Yes. Employers regularly turn down applicants for lack of minor courses. Knowing how to weld means nothing to HR box tickers. An afternoon at joes upstairs welding school: tick.

I saw a kid not get a job because she hadnt ever used a fax machine.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#52

Post by richk449 »

ericmay wrote: post #11

As a society we need to make sure we are taking care of people when their industry is destroyed. The whole “learn 2 code” thing that was directed toward coal workers was exactly the wrong thing to do. If we want those coal plants to shut down we should have offered to pay off the workers until they reached retirement age. If you “take away” someone’s job for the sake of progress, then you’ll make enemies of progress…

You want to offer incentives to people to go into fields that aren’t needed?

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#53

Post by zanny »

ako wrote: post #33
ianai wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be labeled socialism. Seemingly all it takes to defeat a proposal in US politics.

Not sure why socialism has such a bad rap. The opposite is asocialism (a society based on "avoiding social interaction; inconsiderate of or hostile to others."), which can't be good for any society.

Socialism has a bad rap because it comes with a monetary cost. The powers that influence and control legislature today are foremost interested in personal profits - policies that improve society but cost money to do are uninteresting to such parties because, by the nature of them controlling most of the money, most of the funding for such programs would have to be taken from them.

Its financially beneficial to use corporate control of the media to influence and propagandize culture to be antagonistic towards policies that would help the majority but would cost the rulers. Having a protracted half century long war against a nation self-proclaimed to be socialistic was the perfect scapegoat to justify their actions to moderates and rally a base against the ideal for purely selfish motives.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#54

Post by [deleted] »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #46
ericmay wrote: post #11

As a society we need to make sure we are taking care of people when their industry is destroyed. The whole “learn 2 code” thing that was directed toward coal workers was exactly the wrong thing to do. If we want those coal plants to shut down we should have offered to pay off the workers until they reached retirement age. If you “take away” someone’s job for the sake of progress, then you’ll make enemies of progress…

> The whole “learn 2 code” thing that was directed toward coal workers was exactly the wrong thing to do. Can somebody go into depth on this? Everyday I interact with people who have jobs that suck way more than coding and pay way less. Why wouldn't people want to work 40 hours remotely with full benefits making decent wages?

[deleted]

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#55

Post by CinchWrench »

flatline wrote: post #21
ericmay wrote: post #11

As a society we need to make sure we are taking care of people when their industry is destroyed. The whole “learn 2 code” thing that was directed toward coal workers was exactly the wrong thing to do. If we want those coal plants to shut down we should have offered to pay off the workers until they reached retirement age. If you “take away” someone’s job for the sake of progress, then you’ll make enemies of progress…

I don’t think people have a right to a job. But I do think that we as a society have a responsibility for baseline care of everyone. When we can’t depend on the profits of individual’s labor to support them for life any more - which will increasingly be the case according to the current trajectory - something else must be done. This goes beyond the very real issues of wealth disparity and to a much more fundamental p…

>I do think that we as a society have a responsibility for baseline care of everyone.

If you give people a floor like that, you have to keep them doped up enough to be content with it. Or engineer a more complacent human.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#56

Post by maxerickson »

sandworm101 wrote: post #51
maxerickson wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What skills are people going to learn in a week that employers aren't already willing to provide training for? Are things so broken on the employer side that they won't take a 1 week risk on a new hire?

Yes. Employers regularly turn down applicants for lack of minor courses. Knowing how to weld means nothing to HR box tickers. An afternoon at joes upstairs welding school: tick. I saw a kid not get a job because she hadnt ever used a fax machine.

I have a feeling that welding in particular is relatively resistant to meaningless certifications.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#57

Post by kennywinker »

craftyguy wrote: post #47
kennywinker wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even coming from a place of no empathy for displaced workers lives, if we hang these people out to dry we will pay the price down the line. If america had invested in a social safety net for the past 30-40 years, we might be in a different place. People would be ok with change because they'd know that society was going to have their back while they find a new career.

> if we hang these people out to dry we will pay the price down the line. If we continue promoting industries that cause the global climate to worsen more rapidly, we're going to pay a MUCH bigger price down the line. Taking jobs from folks who work in such an industry is a price worth paying, considering the alternative.

> Taking jobs from folks who work in such an industry is a price worth paying, considering the alternative.

The options are not fire them or keep screwing the planet. There's a third option: fire them but don't HANG THEM OUT TO DRY. Provide a social safety net - retraining, early retirement, health care, etc. This is the whole idea behind the "green new deal"... catch the people who would otherwise be ground up by the transition away from fossil fuels.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#58

Post by Erudite_Genius »

Right now, electric cars are a stupid choice. Half the range, 50x the refuel time, and triple the cost of any gasoline-powered alternative.

The day you can buy a $15,000 car that gets 1,000 miles of range that takes 5 minutes to charge at every currently existing gas station will be the day the gasoline-powered car goes extinct.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#59

Post by realbarack »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #46
ericmay wrote: post #11

As a society we need to make sure we are taking care of people when their industry is destroyed. The whole “learn 2 code” thing that was directed toward coal workers was exactly the wrong thing to do. If we want those coal plants to shut down we should have offered to pay off the workers until they reached retirement age. If you “take away” someone’s job for the sake of progress, then you’ll make enemies of progress…

> The whole “learn 2 code” thing that was directed toward coal workers was exactly the wrong thing to do. Can somebody go into depth on this? Everyday I interact with people who have jobs that suck way more than coding and pay way less. Why wouldn't people want to work 40 hours remotely with full benefits making decent wages?

Any career change is non-trivial for a mid-career worker and it's probably unrealistic that a majority of blue-collar workers would be able to transition into software jobs.

"Learn to code" is great advice in general and can change the lives of certain individuals but it's not a winning strategy for shifting a mid-career workforce from one career to another, at scale.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#60

Post by js2 »

pkaye wrote: post #13

I was watching this Youtube video of Audi electric motor production. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zttC2x9nMEw Pretty crazy how much of the motor construction can be automated. There is just no way around it. Union or not, a lot of jobs will disappear. If GM and Ford don't do it then one of the hundred electric car companies around the world will progress in that direction.

The tasks the humans are doing seem somewhat arbitrary. e.g. we see both robots and humans inserting and tightening bolts. I wonder why humans are involved in those steps.
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