The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars • Hacker News Board

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#21

Post by flatline » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 6:38 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #11

As a society we need to make sure we are taking care of people when their industry is destroyed. The whole “learn 2 code” thing that was directed toward coal workers was exactly the wrong thing to do. If we want those coal plants to shut down we should have offered to pay off the workers until they reached retirement age. If you “take away” someone’s job for the sake of progress, then you’ll make enemies of progress…

I don’t think people have a right to a job. But I do think that we as a society have a responsibility for baseline care of everyone. When we can’t depend on the profits of individual’s labor to support them for life any more - which will increasingly be the case according to the current trajectory - something else must be done. This goes beyond the very real issues of wealth disparity and to a much more fundamental problem that comes with automation at these levels.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#22

Post by sprash » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 6:39 PM UTC

Can somebody explain to me why we need to switch to electric cars when we have Fischer-Tropsch to produce fuel literally out of thin air?

We could keep all the existing infrastructure while having zero CO2 impact. I think digging up loads of Lithium and Cobalt and plastering the country with charging stations is neither more sustainable nor less environmentally harmful.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#23

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 6:39 PM UTC

yardie wrote: post #16

ianai wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be labeled socialism. Seemingly all it takes to defeat a proposal in US politics.

The word socialism has lost the sting. Considering one of the top presidential candidates has been running in the platform for decades. And the DSA has made large gains in liberal cities. Simply calling something socialism isn’t the scarlet letter it used to be.

[deleted]

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#24

Post by egypturnash » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

yardie wrote: post #16

ianai wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be labeled socialism. Seemingly all it takes to defeat a proposal in US politics.

The word socialism has lost the sting. Considering one of the top presidential candidates has been running in the platform for decades. And the DSA has made large gains in liberal cities. Simply calling something socialism isn’t the scarlet letter it used to be.

The more that capitalist greedheads label anything that involves being nice to people instead of seeing them as perfect libertarian spheres who act only in their own absolutely rational financial self interests as “socialism”, the more people who give even half a shit about their fellow humans start to think “socialism” must be pretty good.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#25

Post by adrianN » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

mfer wrote: post #18

ericmay wrote: post #11

As a society we need to make sure we are taking care of people when their industry is destroyed. The whole “learn 2 code” thing that was directed toward coal workers was exactly the wrong thing to do. If we want those coal plants to shut down we should have offered to pay off the workers until they reached retirement age. If you “take away” someone’s job for the sake of progress, then you’ll make enemies of progress…

If you take away people’s ability to provide for themselves and their families you’re bound to make enemies and that’s due to hurting people. It says a lot about what one calls progress I would suggest helping those people move on to something else that enables them to care for their families. It’ll make change far more palatable and is better for people

What would be concrete actions that enable someone in their late forties or early fifties to find a new job when the whole industry they've worked in so far basically disappears? Say someone working at a coal plant, or someone assembling ICEs? Who will hire them?

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#26

Post by avar » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 6:43 PM UTC

Aloha wrote: post #9

I'm skeptical that the labor differential is as big as this article implies frankly. This strike is pretty straightforward in cause, GM wants to pay less, and wants their employees to cover more of their healthcare costs, the Union isnt okay with this. Working in an auto plant is hard, backbreaking work that will leave you physically broken by retirement - and while the transition to electric cars may slightly reduce…

> Working in an auto plant is hard, backbreaking work that will leave you physically broken by retirement

Is it? I've watched a lot of modern car assembly line videos and it doesn't seem to be hard or backbreaking at all. Boring and tedious? Sure, here's one for GM's best selling vehicle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nr3I-Fddv8

At no point do you see anyone lift something heavy without the assistance of overhead cranes.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#27

Post by maxerickson » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 6:44 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #19

ericmay wrote: post #11

As a society we need to make sure we are taking care of people when their industry is destroyed. The whole “learn 2 code” thing that was directed toward coal workers was exactly the wrong thing to do. If we want those coal plants to shut down we should have offered to pay off the workers until they reached retirement age. If you “take away” someone’s job for the sake of progress, then you’ll make enemies of progress…

I think the way we take care of people is by providing many diverse training paths and transparency. Not just college age programs but lifelong learning where it’s possible to learn to code or weld or teach or whatever. Our libraries and community colleges should include more low cost certification and structured learning programs where people can explore interests. I think this is very different from the high cost 4…

What skills are people going to learn in a week that employers aren't already willing to provide training for?

Are things so broken on the employer side that they won't take a 1 week risk on a new hire?

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#28

Post by _iyig » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

Related previous discussion: "Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line"

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19236245

Sounds like many HN users liked the Volt. Thread also has some insights into the political nature of the Volt's disappearance.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#29

Post by bluedino » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

There are so many parts involved with a traditional engine and transmission. Living in Michigan, there are lots of companies building these individual parts. I know a guy who works at a place that builds springs for transmissions (https://www.pjws.com/our-products/)

Valvetrain parts, pistons, rings, crankshafts, starters, heads, oil pumps, exhaust manifolds, mufflers, fuel injectors, sensors...none of this stuff is needed on an electric car.

Hearing UAW members talk about the strike and concessions, they often say things like "they need to guarantee our jobs"...they know electric is coming.

At the extreme you have factory workers who are just in denial. "How can electricity have more power than gas?" You can show them a video of a Tesla P100 racing a and they will tell you to your face that it's fake and they don't believe it.

Re: The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars

#30

Post by _iyig » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

yardie wrote: post #16

ianai wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be labeled socialism. Seemingly all it takes to defeat a proposal in US politics.

The word socialism has lost the sting. Considering one of the top presidential candidates has been running in the platform for decades. And the DSA has made large gains in liberal cities. Simply calling something socialism isn’t the scarlet letter it used to be.

I don't know why you've been downvoted. I've also watched this change unfold in big cities on the East and West Coast, most strongly among younger voters, since Bernie's candidacy in the 2016 election.