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China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

asiatimes.com

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Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#491

Post by e12e »

rb808 wrote: post #381
dheera wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think 1000 km/h travel would bring HUGE benefits. State-of-the-art high-speed trains at 350 km/h tend to waste less time than planes for distances shorter than about 1000 km if you include the time it takes to get to the airport, check-in, go through security, and all that nonsense. Beyond 1000 km journeys, planes tend to be more time-saving. 1000 km/h is about the cruising speed of an aircraft so if it were possib…

The problem is any accident at that speed everyone on the train or near vicinity is toast. Even a plane coming in to land is around 300km/h.

I don't think too many survivors are expected if a train derails at 280 km/h?

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#492

Post by joelx »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #324
bobthepanda wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that during the last major American infrastructure buildout, the Interstates, experts basically rammed through projects without considering local impacts or local objections, and highways ended up gutting a lot of the neighborhoods (often poor or minority ones) that they went through. Eventually the pendulum swung in the other direction and people gained the ability to stop urban freeways, but now the…

The interstate highway system was originally envisioned as going around the cities, not through them. Unfortunately, local politicians and construction unions pushed for the opposite, resulting in the displacement of thousands of homes. St. Louis (where I went to college) is a sad example of this; I-55 was a dagger through the heart of the city and to this day there is bitterness over how many homes were razed in the…

This is not true. The interstate highway system was a massive improvement to our country and enabled us to leap ahead. There are always sour grapes from people who had to move, but moving should not be a big deal.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#493

Post by mikhailfranco »

Based on current services, in China you can go twice as far in half the time:

  San Francisco - Los Angeles:   620 km, train time 9:00 hr
  Beijing       - Shanghai:    1,320 km, train time 4:30 hr
Prices in China are slightly higher:

  San Fran - LA:        $53 lowest;  $65 average
  Beijing  - Shanghai:  $80   (553 CNY)
Averaged for $/km CHina would be 20-35% cheaper.

https://www.wanderu.com/en-us/train/us-ca/los-angeles/us-ca/...

https://www.chinahighlights.com/china-trains/beijing-shangha...

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#494

Post by hinkley »

kalleboo wrote: post #472
hinkley wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

infrastructure literally and figuratively underlays parts of society. Boston has infrastructure problems to a degree Seattle doesn't experience because when the Seattle core burned to the ground, it was rebuilt in some critical areas with newer infrastructure and thinking. If you were a Bostonian or Chicagoan in that era, you were patting yourself on the back because your town hadn't burned in 20 years, and would not…

> Similarly, residents of Tokyo were 'forced' into cellphones because even the 'burbs were so dense that installing new data lines was hugely expensive And yet now Japan has a nationwide FTTH grid to the point where the telco has discontinued new ADSL signups.

i didn’t mean to imply that installed base trumps all other concerns. It creates back pressure that takes a really big reason to overcome. Installing a small bundle of fiber optic is so much more interesting than giant bundles of 10MB copper that can’t even handle the entire neighborhood. I’m sure that will overcome friction in a lot of places.

I’m wondering if part of that exorbitant cost was installing repeaters. Which fiber has much less need of.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#495

Post by bobthepanda »

joelx wrote: post #492
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interstate highway system was originally envisioned as going around the cities, not through them. Unfortunately, local politicians and construction unions pushed for the opposite, resulting in the displacement of thousands of homes. St. Louis (where I went to college) is a sad example of this; I-55 was a dagger through the heart of the city and to this day there is bitterness over how many homes were razed in the…

This is not true. The interstate highway system was a massive improvement to our country and enabled us to leap ahead. There are always sour grapes from people who had to move, but moving should not be a big deal.

The interstate highway system between cities, and around cities, was a great improvement.

The interstate highway system through cities was a disaster that mostly served to turn economically productive land into craters of parking lots generating very little tax revenue. Those with the means fled severed neighborhoods with spiking pollution levels, leaving the poor with asthma in their wake. While some cities managed to recover in the following decades, not all of them have.

And suburbs that people fled to are not necessarily faring any better; suburbs are cheap to live in initially but become extremely expensive when you start having to replace infrastructure at the end of its life. Nassau County, NY, home of the first generation of suburbs, has been under state fiscal control since 2000 despite being one of the wealthiest counties in the nation, because the fiscal math does not add up.

A lot of the suburban growth that happened was also just shuffling it around a region rather than true growth. For example, Buffalo's metro area has tripled in land area despite the same population, so the same tax base is now expected to support triple the infrastructure.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#496

Post by jmpman »

saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

Sure, I voted for the California high speed rail... mostly because I expected to move after a few years and not have to pay for it.. but even when I voted for it, I knew it was going to be a cluster...

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#497

Post by profalseidol »

saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

"dropping taxes for the biggest companies and lowering spending on infrastructure and public works" = repulsive

"green tech investment and high tech public transport systems" = actually helps the people

Start by fixing misinformation about what is the PRC and the "democractic" US.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#498

Post by dheera »

e12e wrote: post #491
rb808 wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is any accident at that speed everyone on the train or near vicinity is toast. Even a plane coming in to land is around 300km/h.

I don't think too many survivors are expected if a train derails at 280 km/h?

High speed trains don't derail that often if built well. Modern high speed rail systems have better safety records than planes.

China's high speed rail system has had 1 accident with 40 deaths out of several billion passenger kilometers of trips, and that was involving a slower, older technology. The latest, fastest trains in China have not had any accidents to date.

Japan's Shinkansen has had 2 derailments in half a century of operation, one due to an earthquake and one due to inclement weather. Both incidents had zero injuries.

The European systems have had notably higher accident rates but still surpass the safety records of planes.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#499

Post by repolfx »

credit_guy wrote: post #490
repolfx wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming HSR is a "good" decision versus the alternatives, but who's to say it is? Further down this thread is a link to this video called, "Why is China so good at building railways?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JDoll8OEFE The presenter and quite a few commenters seem to have a built-in bias towards rail. Don't get me wrong. I love a good train journey and prefer it to flying when it's competitive. But t…

Whatever baggage China had, France and Japan didn't, and they are criss-crossed with high speed rail. A flight from Paris to Marseille takes 1:20h and starts from $133 and a TGV takes 3:09 and starts from $35 [1]. I would take the train any time. I personally take the train even if the comparison is not that clear cut. Recently I travelled with Acela from NYC to Boston for journey time of about 4h. The flight time wo…

Both French and Japanese HSR were/are financial black holes that bankrupted the relevant railway companies. French TGV is nice but again, stations are often far outside the city centres. Compared to flying (profitable on its own) it's not at all clear any of these countries made the right decisions.

WRT CO2, it's not quite so clear cut unfortunately. Planes emit more only because they travel further. Mile for mile they aren't that different these days.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#500

Post by de_watcher »

cwkoss wrote: post #481
de_watcher wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A similar system could drop off middle cars...

Good point! You could have engines on the front and back cars, approaching a stop could make trailing cars apply slight breaking to create separation between them when going over 'router' tracks, allowing leave the train and new cars to enter in the gaps, then back engine could accelerate gradually to unify the train before switching main power back to front car. This would be really fun to watch in action.

Or when it fails.
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