Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency • Hacker News Board

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#191

Post by z3t4 » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 9:46 AM UTC

tsukurimashou wrote: post #182

goatinaboat wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it'll be a success Imagine being unable to buy food because an algorithm determined that “you violated our community standards” and there’s no way to contact them. One or two stories like that will kill Libra stone dead. If Libra ignored these rules, they'll put these guys (or at least a part of their offerings) out of business This is called money laundering, people go to jail for it.

>Imagine being unable to buy food because an algorithm determined that “you violated our community standards” and there’s no way to contact them Not to defend Facebook in any way but, isn't that already the case with a bank system automatically blocking your card for no valid reason and no way to call them over the weekend for example? (happened to me a few times)

This is why I'm against a cacheless society as it becomes too easy to lock someone out of society, being it a bug, algorithm, network downtime, or abuse. And for the platform to automatically draw money for arbitrary reasons like fees or because you forgot to push some buttons in their web interface. And then you have to pay a percentage in all transactions and probably also a monthly fee. And the platform will keep drawing money putting your account into negative.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#192

Post by pyrale » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 9:53 AM UTC

Mengkudulangsat wrote: post #178

Iv wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either Zuckberg has a geeky naive understanding of financial institutions to think this will go easily, or he is ready to use blackmail material. Libra is something I wish we fight to the death.

What is so hateful about Libra when compared with the People Bank of China's digital currency project? When that is launched, any non-chinese can hold digital yuan without a bank account. Wouldn't the west want something equivalent for geopolitical reasons?

As a "westerner" please explain me why I would want a private american company that has been known to neglect their responsibilities to wield geopolitical power?

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#193

Post by Nokinside » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 9:55 AM UTC

randomsearch wrote: post #185

Nokinside wrote: post #173

Big megacorps suck at innovation. Their internally developed product innovations are typically crap. This comes as a surprise for companies like Facebook because they were once internet startups. They still see themselves as youthful and innovative. Wearing T-shirt or being casual may correlate with innovation, but there is no causality. The founder/CEO had success with one big idea that turned into success. What evi…

Agree with your general point but I think Apple and Amazon are clear examples of big corps that have continued to innovate. My hypothesis is that companies with CEOs able to stay close to the end users and keep a product focus are able to counterbalance the main problem with big companies - that their decision makers are no longer close to their customers. I think they’re exceptions though.

Can you mention biggest Apple or Amazon innovations in the last 10 years that:

1. Are not incremental, or just leveraging existing business to obvious directions.

2. originated internally

3. turned into big profitable business.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#194

Post by tim333 » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 9:59 AM UTC

Nokinside wrote: post #173

Big megacorps suck at innovation. Their internally developed product innovations are typically crap. This comes as a surprise for companies like Facebook because they were once internet startups. They still see themselves as youthful and innovative. Wearing T-shirt or being casual may correlate with innovation, but there is no causality. The founder/CEO had success with one big idea that turned into success. What evi…

Counter example:

>Xerox PARC has been in large part responsible for such developments as laser printing, Ethernet, the modern personal computer, graphical user interface (GUI) and desktop paradigm, object-oriented programming, ubiquitous computing, electronic paper, amorphous silicon (a-Si) applications, the mouse and advancing very-large-scale integration (VLSI) for semiconductors.

See also iPhones, Waymo cars etc. I think the trick is to have one or two smart and focused people in charge of the innovation left largely to do their thing rather than committees and bureaucracy.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#195

Post by asjw » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 9:59 AM UTC

vinniejames wrote: post #136

vertex-four wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the regulators let them get away with that, nobody in Europe is particularly in need of a cryptocurrency for moving money around Europe, we have near-instant money transfers for free (or close to it) through our banks. I guess they could go for the remittances market, but that's really not where I see Facebook wanting to go.

This fact is only an effect of the EU, it's a single banking system. That's like saying we don't need a cryptocurrency system in the US because it's easy to move money from California to New York :/

But it isn't.

US don't have sepa or psd-2

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#196

Post by Lordarminius » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 10:07 AM UTC

chank wrote: post #47

ilaksh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal of Libra was not really to compete with Western Union. It was more to compete with real cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, Ethereum, Monero, etc. and it wasn't just Facebook's idea. PayPal, Visa etc. know that real cryptocurrencies are eventually going to put them out of business. That's why they joined in on this fake cryptocurrency. The reason companies are pulling out is probably just because it looks like it…

It's way more complex than that. Pretty much everyone in government and the crypto space doesn't want Libra to succeed under it's current stewardship. The implications are very far reaching. Also, there isn't a single cryptocurrency today that can't be tracked, even ones like Monero.

> Also, there isn't a single cryptocurrency today that can't be tracked, even ones like Monero.

Look up PirateChain.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#197

Post by tim333 » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 10:08 AM UTC

vertex-four wrote: post #20

If Facebook attempts to become a money transfer service or bank without the required licensing, they will have their offices raided and their doors locked on them. This is something Governments don't tend to mess around with.

I'm not sure legally they'd be much different to Coinbase (YC S12) selling you bitcoins.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#198

Post by YawningAngel » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 10:10 AM UTC

alt_f4 wrote: post #177

goatinaboat wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it'll be a success Imagine being unable to buy food because an algorithm determined that “you violated our community standards” and there’s no way to contact them. One or two stories like that will kill Libra stone dead. If Libra ignored these rules, they'll put these guys (or at least a part of their offerings) out of business This is called money laundering, people go to jail for it.

> Imagine being unable to buy food because an algorithm determined that “you violated our community standards” and there’s no way to contact them. One or two stories like that will kill Libra stone This already exists. If your bank's AML algorithm flags certain transactions, your account will be frozen, with no explanation (they legally can't tell you why they did it, it is an offense). You will be asked to produce s…

This isn't quite correct. At Monzo (and thus I assume other banks in the UK as well) you won't be sanctioned until a human being had reviewed your case history.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#199

Post by Smithalicious » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 10:10 AM UTC

csomar wrote: post #12

Here are some wild predictions I'm making + Many (or potentially all of the backers except Facebook) will withdraw from the alliance. + Facebook/Zuckerberg will defy the gov.s and launch Libra. + Libra might not dominate the world, but it'll be a success (at least a niche success) and it'll eat up some of the marketshare of these financial institutions. I think Zuckerberg has come (or already know) to the realization…

Normally I'd say that "[thing] but with no regard for the law" isn't a viable business model, but several startups have already proved me wrong.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#200

Post by tim333 » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 10:13 AM UTC

Nokinside wrote: post #193

randomsearch wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with your general point but I think Apple and Amazon are clear examples of big corps that have continued to innovate. My hypothesis is that companies with CEOs able to stay close to the end users and keep a product focus are able to counterbalance the main problem with big companies - that their decision makers are no longer close to their customers. I think they’re exceptions though.

Can you mention biggest Apple or Amazon innovations in the last 10 years that: 1. Are not incremental, or just leveraging existing business to obvious directions. 2. originated internally 3. turned into big profitable business.

How many innovations from any source turn into profitable business within 10 years? It's a very small percentage.