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Pricing niche products

kevinlynagh.com

291–300 of 368 posts

Re: Pricing niche products

#291
post #66

There's even Keycon https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=98877.0 If you want to see the full range and get a sense of what this is about: https://old.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/ 1.6K seems a bit steep. You can find most kits in the low 00s However mechanical keyboards are popular with gamers and more about collectibles / art than anything, so price becomes less releva…

I ordered a keyboard.io and ended up returning it because it felt so cheap.

A lot of the switches are angled poorly and they key caps are too large for the switches. This results in your finger not pressing the switch straight down or directly in the center. This made every key press need a different amount of force to actuate.

The keycaps were custom made for the layout. They felt like they picked the cheapest possible plastic which resulted in them having a lot of play. But since they were custom there was no hope of replacing them.

The board was also very "hollow" so it the keys just drummed, rattled and echoed about when typing instead of just resounding a punctual click.

Also, the thing is so massive. It takes up sooo much space.

They have their own firmware instead of just leveraging something that already exists like QMK. Which is fine for the most part, but I prefer to have all my keyboards running the same firmware.

TL;DR It's a $400 keyboard that feels worse than a $60 keyboard.

Re: Pricing niche products

#292
The keyboard community isn’t weird at all. People love getting deep into a hobby because people like to feel like they have expertise and depth. When they get deep into a hobby, their level of commitment seems insane to a person on the outside. I can’t fathom why someone would spend $1000 on sneakers or $1000 on a keyboard or $1000 on a golf club or $1000 at the strip club. But everyone has their hobbies.

Re: Pricing niche products

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple users don't wear white ear buds to signal to one another, they do it exclusively to signal to people who don't have it that the apple user can afford product and symbol greatly in excess of the person. Or, you know, they're not interested in "signaling" anything, they're wearing them because they're the free ear buds that came with their smartphone and they're listening to music or making a phone call.

Right, and a decade of advertisements featuring those status symbols were pointless because no one cares about them. Alternatively: Or you know, mechanical keyboard users aren't interested in "signalling" anything, they're just using well manufactured accessories featuring high quality processes and materials.

Are you willfully blind to the fact that people have consumer preference for Apple products? I spent extra money for a case that covers up the Apple logo but would gladly pay 2x the cost of this phone to avoid going back to Android hell.

Re: Pricing niche products

#294
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What kind of mouse or trackpad is everyone using with these $xxx - $xxxx keyboards? Mice with holes. Your mouse must have holes. https://i.redd.it/i5s6j18i3hp31.jpg https://i.imgur.com/DSW0lvH.jpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14d68Wgwevs https://en.reddit.com/r/MouseReview/

That looks like a cleaning nightmare waiting to happen.

If I need to clean a mouse that I've been using for less than a few years, I am going to reevaluate my personal hygiene. After that, it's going in the trash.

Re: Pricing niche products

#295
post #2

I have a $600+ keyboard so I'm a part of this hobby. However, only a part of this can be explained by the expense of manufacturing at a small scale. The hobby fully embraces the drawbacks of the small scale and intentionally does nothing to try to improve it because the exclusivity drives prices up to an insane point. A typical group buy for a popular case sells out in minutes or days time after time. Clearly some of…

What keycaps do you recommend, generally? Have you ever tried the "Falcon" Z-77 keyboard? It's been rebranded/knocked off by several Chinese manufacturers (different brands all have the same distinct falcon logo in the top middle of the keyboard) and is available on Amazon for around $30. I bought one (the HUO JI version) after encountering several reviews from folks saying it compared favorably with their $100+ boar…

As a complement to phaus's excellent comment, I'd like to talk a bit about keycap profiles. The two main categories are cylindrical and spherical profiles. Almost all off-the-shelf keyboards have cylindrical profile keycaps on them by default -- essentially, it's as if a cylindrical chunk has been removed from the top of a flat keycap. OEM profile and Cherry profile are the two most common cylindrical profiles (the keycaps that come with most off-the-shelf keyboards are OEM profile). A spherical-profile keycap has more of a fingertip-shaped divot in the top (SA, MT3, DSA, and XDA are the most common spherical profiles). I personally find spherical profiles more comfortable than cylindrical profiles, so you may want to give them a try, but if you're happy with your current keycaps then you're probably not missing much.

The other major factors that describe profiles are height (hi-profile keycaps are taller than low-profile keycaps) and sculpting. With a sculpted profile, the keycaps on the top rows of your keyboard will be tilted towards you, the keycaps in the middle will be flatter, and the keycaps in the bottom row will be tilted away. Many people find this more comfortable than a flat profile (keycaps from any row of the keyboard are shaped the same), but others find flat profiles feel equally nice, and if you're using a layout like Dvorak or Colemak it's easier to switch your keycaps around to match (with a sculpted profile you'd have to buy an entirely separate kit with the alpha keys in the correct location). Hi-profile keycaps will be taller and, if they're sculpted, are generally sculpted more dramatically sculpted than low-profile keycaps. Sculpted keycap shapes are generally described by row number, with Row 0 or 1 used for the F-row and Row 4 or 5 used for the spacebar and modifier key row. (Numbering systems are not standardized, but R3 should always refer to the home row.)

Of the spherical profiles, SA and MT3 are hi-profile and sculpted (except for a few SA sets, which use all-row-3 keycaps and are therefore flat), and DSA and XDA are low-profile and flat. Low-profile sculpted spherical sets are rarer -- MDA profile was recently developed to help fill this niche, but you will have trouble finding an MDA set outside of group buys.

In terms of actual recommendations? Budget-priced spherical sets are unfortunately thin on the ground; they haven't really left the high-end group-buy-only enthusiast market, whereas there's a lot of cheap OEM profile sets with a variety of aesthetics. I own and like the Matt3o Nerd DSA set [1], which is currently in stock and costs $50. (Signature Plastics keeps some DSA sets in stock on pimpmykeyboard.com, but they're all $80-$100.) For a sculpted set, look at Maxkey SA sets on kbdfans.com (also priced at around $100, but it's a slightly better price than Signature Plastics' SA sets).

[1] https://drop.com/buy/matt3o-nerd-dsa-keycap-set-massdrop-exc...

Re: Pricing niche products

#296
post #255
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the boards and caps are nothing compared to artisan keycaps. i have traded countless things to acquire keycaps that would sell for $250+ each. one keycap! brobot caps are especially rare and i frequently see people buying them for $500 each i actually think artisans make sense to be so expensive since there is a level of artistry and rarity that most boards do not have. some of the rare korean boards are super rare t…

You've got me curious, what makes a particular keycap sell the prices you quote? I can understand how valuation tied to rarity, but people paying ~$500 for a single cap implies that there's significantly more to it than scarcity. I know that if I try to search for an answer I'll get a bunch of cruft given my lack of knowledge of what question to even ask, so I'm hoping you can provide some background for a n00b :) Th…

It’s basically a piece of art. If you want to sell it to a private equity banker you put it in a gilt frame. If you want to sell it to a Facebook machine learning engineer you put it in a space bar form factor.

Re: Pricing niche products

#297

These things have become so esoteric and expensive because the mechanical keyboard hobby is undergoing a more intense version of what happens to most hobbies/pastimes; the purpose of the hobby has transitioned from primarily "making/using the thing" to "obtaining and displaying ever more extreme versions of the thing to impress other people who know about the thing". I feel like this is an outgrowth of the basic huma…

>I think this is so strong in the mechanical keyboard community because there's not a lot of "there" there.

I actually disagree with that, which is why I'm a bit annoyed at the state of keyboard enthusiast communities. I think that there's plenty of room for improving keyboards, not necessarily for better performance but mainly for more comfort.

Over the past decade or so I've been using more and more "esotheric" layouts and mappings. I'm typing this comment on an ergodox mapped with a pretty heavily customized dvorak layout. And you get get much deeper in this rabbit hole with custom 3D printed keyboards like the Dactyl for instance. I've been working on a custom model in OpenSCAD and I'm looking at buying a 3D printer to experiment, I'm looking forward to using a custom Frankenstein'd keyboard in the future.

So clearly, I don't think keyboards are a solved problem. There's plenty of room for experimentation. What about foot pedals? Palm keys? Integration of touch pads or trackballs in the keyboard? What about weird modifier keys, for instance using shift keys to input ( and ) when not used as a modifier (I've been using that for about a year and I love it). What about adding cameras and some processing so that you can use hand gestures on top of typing on the keys? A compromise between "minority report" style interfaces and a good old contacts, with the strengths of both?

But I agree with your overall point: it seems like the bigger hobbyist communities around keyboards these days are about collecting and making fashion statements, not hacking keyboards. Just look at https://www.reddit.com/r/mechanicalkeyboards , if you like pictures of keyboards and keycaps (and ridiculously overcomplicated cables) it's amazing but beyond that it's mostly boring old typewriter layouts and qwerty. That's a bit disappointing IMO, but I guess it's just not for me.

Re: Pricing niche products

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've put together a number of fairly expensive keyboards ($700+) and I'm embarrassed to tell anyone I know (who sees them on my desk at home) how much they cost. I didn't build them for anyone but myself. My dad thought one of them was really neat looking and was curious how much it cost. I was very reluctant to tell him but he kept asking and obviously was completely shocked when I told him the final cost. He couldn…

For sure, and starting from the assumption that we'd only get these things because they improve our typing is kind of like assuming car collectors only do it to improve their driving. Amusing to watch hackernews reverse-engineer the concept of a hobby from first principles. I understand it can feel embarrassing to acknowledge the price of your hobbies but ultimately this is your money and you should be spending it on…

Ya, money is not a concern, it's just embarrassing because it's an obscure hobby that is hard to understand so most people just think I'm a little crazy. But if I had $5,000 in a stamp collection, nobody would bat an eye and those would literally never get used for their actual purpose. So, it's just kind of a double standard that probably haunts everyone with unusual hobbies.

Re: Pricing niche products

#299

Oh wow, I have been living under a rock. My friends and family consider me a mechanical keyboard enthusiast/geek because I have two mechanical keyboards and a simple 6 switch tester that I used prior to purchasing my first mechanical keyboard, the CM Masterkeys Pro S RGB. I've tried explaining why I ordered a tester, why I chose Cherry MX Blues, but I don't think I managed to get my point across. So here I am, having…

Your wife and family got off easy! You could have developed an affinity for... I don't know, boating, or restoring vintage Ford Mustangs, or watch collecting.

There are some things that people -- even the regular "non-rich" -- spend insane amounts of money on.

Re: Pricing niche products

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's disappointing how a $100,000 watch still has a big and little hand going around a conventional 12 hour dial ...

That's not accurate. There are ergonomic variants of keyboards on the market. There is no viable alternative to the way how we measure time.

There are digital and 24 hour variants that are not only viable, but common.
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