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Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

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Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#531

Post by [deleted] »

SamBam wrote: post #513
concordDance wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very unconvinced it's lead to an explosion is child abuse. Child abuse has always been happening (several of the older members of my family were abused), it just wasn't broadcasted. Even today I bet 99% of child abuse is never caught on camera. The increase from child porn is probably negligible.

If you actually read the article above, you can see that there's actually now lots of new evidence that viewing child porn makes people more likely to commit abuse, and that it seems to be a causal relationship, not a "marijuana is a gateway drug" relationship.

[deleted]

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#532

Post by godelski »

feanaro wrote: post #528
godelski wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the two key things to remember are that "failure will happen" and Blackstone's principle. We have to, as a society, decide which direction we want to fail (modes of failure). We also have to decide what amount is acceptable (having 0 crime is a good goal, but we will never get there and need to be realistic). I think it is clear which way the founders of the country wanted failure to happen, which is Blacksto…

> (having 0 crime is a good goal, but we will never get there and need to be realistic). Actually, please stop there and think about this for a second. Having zero crime depends extremely strongly on the precise definition of "crime". Much more so than other, non-zero levels of crime. This is only a good thing if you are absolutely sure that the definition of what constitutes a crime right now is perfect and immutabl…

Why does my point have to depend on immutables? I'm really pointing out Pareto, which is still going to exist if you add or remove crimes. The only way I can see your counterpoint being an actual rebuttal, and not just pedantic, is if you redefine crime to be something meaningless. But if we're allowed to change definitions then we can't really have any conversation about anything. But language is imprecise and we can quibble over things that are in that imprecision or we can argue over what was the clear intent of statements.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#534

Post by cr0sh »

mr_overalls wrote: post #511
8note wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

more specifically, to keep black people from voting

Sure, for marijuana. But not all substances are the same. If you've ever gone through the hell of having a family member or close friend being addicted to heroin or coke or other physically-addictive "hard" drugs, you'll see that they're not in the same risk category at all.

But then you also had the whole "coke vs crack" thing in the 1980s - where crack was a predominantly used drug by ethnic minorities, and cocaine was more likely to be used by "high rollers" who could afford it - usually white and rich, yuppies, etc. Wall Street types and the like.

But rarely did you see or hear about any of those people landing in jail or prison for long periods. If you heard anything it was more or less laughed about, and society forgot about it. The perps maybe would spend a day or two in jail, get bailed out, and have their lawyers negotiate and plead down to a misdemeanor or something like that. Rich guy goes back to party and life.

Crack users? Well - they all ended up in prison for super long stretches and/or died there. Nobody cared or cares. Certainly not the above cocaine users and abiders.

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that the people abusing the cocaine and making deals like that weren't also in on the production and selling of the crack made from a portion of that same cocaine...

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#535

Post by jachee »

bduerst wrote: post #241
jachee wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got any sources to cite for that watching and listening? Specifically Apple-related and North American examples?

>Specifically Apple-related and North American examples? That's an oddly narrow goalpost. Apple shares user encryption keys with the Chinese government, for example, giving the Chinese government access to all iCloud pictures, messages, documents, videos, etc.

> That's an oddly narrow goalpost.

I didn't want to get accused of moving it later. Also, I'm only interested if there's evidence that applies to me. I'm 100% Apple and 100% USA-based, so if there's proof that "the government is listening!" then I want to see it.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#537

Post by cr0sh »

danShumway wrote: post #182

> mere numbers cannot capture the significance of the harm to children. Oh, bull crap. By this argument, literally no protection or liberty that allows even one child to be harmed could ever be tolerated. Why stop at vetting baby-sitters or teachers? We ought to require mandatory background checks for every person who ever visits a family or goes into a public space that might contain children. Law enforcement also o…

> By this argument, literally no protection or liberty that allows even one child to be harmed could ever be tolerated.

[argument]: Considering that a large amount of child abuse is perpetrated by the parents of children, perhaps the people who need to be vetted first are...

/of course, that devolves into "vet everyone"...

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#538

Post by nickodell »

sjy wrote: post #530
tmerc wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"captures 99% of child exploitation" The majority of bullet holes are in the wings, so those need armor; the majority of child exploitation is through Facebook, so they need access to the content of the messages. It's an assumption made on incomplete information. The engineers only saw bullet holes in the planes that returned. And law makers only have information about the criminals who get caught. At least that's my…

The wrong assumption is in BuzzFeed's reference to "99% of child exploitation." The letter, which they deserve credit for quoting in full, says that "more than 99% of the content Facebook takes action against – both for child sexual exploitation and terrorism – is identified by Facebook's safety systems" (which rely on Facebook being able to automatically analyse unencrypted messages), "rather than by reports from us…

Assuming you discover child exploitation on Facebook, why would you report it to Facebook, rather than the police? The police can actually arrest people.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#539

Post by jachee »

onli wrote: post #210
jachee wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got any sources to cite for that watching and listening? Specifically Apple-related and North American examples?

It's hard to take that question serious. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)#E... explains why. Snowden leaked it years ago now. There is even a scene about that in the movie. And Apple-related? North American? That's not relevant at all.

It's relevant to what I want to see.

You boldly claimed that the government is observing me in my home through my devices, and I want you to show your work.

PRISM happens at the ISP level, and doesn't mention directly using iPhones, Macs, HomePods or tv as surveillance endpoints... So, where's your proof showing that they're surveilling US Citizens through those specific devices?

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#540

Post by leetcrew »

throwawaylolx wrote: post #479
ekianjo wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This predates the age of the Internet by millenia. Almost every politician in History appeals to children to drive their policies or block their opponents'.

How? Childhood is a rather modern concept and child labour exploitation peaked just a few centuries ago during the Industrial Revolution. What historical events and periods are you referring to in the past millenia?

corrupting the youth was one of the charges against Socrates made by essentially political opponents.
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