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Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

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Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#71

Post by 52-6F-62 »

ThalesX wrote: post #16

I try to shy away from politics on this website but I can't shake this nagging feeling that this says something important about the current state of the US and the world. I am not a US citizen nor a resident, nor am I a Russian citizen or resident, so my opinions are absolutely subjective. I feel like whenever an external agent such as Russia opens up the troll farms, the US gets all up in arms about the threat to de…

Tangential, probably, but this is a great article on the subject of the IRA/troll farms: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#72

Post by jacobush »

ThalesX wrote: post #25
jacobush wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Russians get psyops TV and little internet

I am not aware of this, but upon a quick google I see the penetration is not that bad; in the U.S. it seems to be 88.5% [0] whereas in Russia it's 71.3% [1], so it's not all that far off. Unless you are talking about the quantity of 'psyops' on the media channels and that I couldn't quantify. [0] https://www.internetlivestats.com/internet-users/russia/ [1] https://www.internetlivestats.com/internet-users/us/

This is not as bad as I imagined it. Can't imagine much free press is allowed in Russia. What's left must self-sensor pretty heavily, especially after Anna was shot.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#73

Post by kazagistar »

murph-almighty wrote: post #68
WillPostForFood wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while they are doing it to their own citizens! That's not what the story is saying. The FCC didn't create any fake comments. From one we know so far, one "grassroots" marketing company has been identified as creating fake comments. Their client hasn't been identified, but likely is an ISP, or an ISP lobbying group. This is bad behavior, but far from the Government psyops on its own citizens. edit: yes, multiple indus…

> likely is an ISP, or an ISP lobbying group The devil is in the details here- consider the current state of regulatory capture of the FCC, where Ajit Pai is arguably representing the interests of his previous employer, Verizon. It's not a giant leap to argue that the placement of Pai and the comments on the net neutrality board were 1) orchestrated by Verizon and 2) strategically use the government as a proxy to hid…

I certainly blame the structure, as in, the Citizens United supreme court decision that the constitution protects spending unlimited money convincing politicians to do what you want. It's just not something you can change without clarifying or modifying the constitution, and thus corruption is fundamentally a inevitable outcome of our current political structure.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#74

Post by calibas »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #61
ThalesX wrote: post #16

I try to shy away from politics on this website but I can't shake this nagging feeling that this says something important about the current state of the US and the world. I am not a US citizen nor a resident, nor am I a Russian citizen or resident, so my opinions are absolutely subjective. I feel like whenever an external agent such as Russia opens up the troll farms, the US gets all up in arms about the threat to de…

while they are doing it to their own citizens! That's not what the story is saying. The FCC didn't create any fake comments. From one we know so far, one "grassroots" marketing company has been identified as creating fake comments. Their client hasn't been identified, but likely is an ISP, or an ISP lobbying group. This is bad behavior, but far from the Government psyops on its own citizens. edit: yes, multiple indus…

Did you not read the article? It was two marketing companies, Media Bridge and LCX Digital, working for Broadband for America.

According to their site, they represent "the hundreds of millions of Americans who are literally connected through broadband", which is a flat out lie. They're a lobbyist group that works for AT&T, CenturyLink, Charter, Comcast, and Cox, among others.

Now it's easy to say it's not such a big deal because it's private businesses and their right to "free speech", except for one enormous glaring issue that makes all that moot. The actual human beings are the same, the private businesses and the government are theoretically separate, but literally the same people.

This isn't even up for argument, it's the "elephant in the room". Ajit Pai, head of the FCC, used to be a lawyer for Verizon, a member of Broadband for America. The group paying to fraudulently manipulate the FCC and subvert the democratic process is directly connected to the head of the FCC. Verizon is fucking regulated by one of it's former lawyers!

Now that the lines have been blurred between government and private business, we're also crossing the lines between advertising and propaganda, which is psyops.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#75

Post by kazagistar »

ThalesX wrote: post #42
coldcode wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pathetic when people from any country equate what a country's politicians do with what their people want. I am not the US government. The US government may love the idea of foreign influence and hacking but a big chunk of its people do not. Please do not confuse these two things.

What's the alternative though? Politicians are elected by the people to represent the people's needs and wants because as of yet we can't really ask everyone 's opinion on every decision. I think the political decisions of a country can be equated to the will of the majority, because every election cycle the majority can change their government's body. Or protest. Or get involved in politics. Maybe you're not part of…

The US president was elected by 25.7% of the public. US democracy is beyond broken, and pretending the government represents the will of the majority, especially on any given issue, is a joke.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#76

Post by WillPostForFood »

calibas wrote: post #74
WillPostForFood wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while they are doing it to their own citizens! That's not what the story is saying. The FCC didn't create any fake comments. From one we know so far, one "grassroots" marketing company has been identified as creating fake comments. Their client hasn't been identified, but likely is an ISP, or an ISP lobbying group. This is bad behavior, but far from the Government psyops on its own citizens. edit: yes, multiple indus…

Did you not read the article? It was two marketing companies, Media Bridge and LCX Digital, working for Broadband for America. According to their site, they represent "the hundreds of millions of Americans who are literally connected through broadband", which is a flat out lie. They're a lobbyist group that works for AT&T, CenturyLink, Charter, Comcast, and Cox, among others. Now it's easy to say it's not such a big…

Pai worked as Associate General Counsel at Verizon from 2001 to 2003, over 15 years ago. Neither Pai nor the FCC didn't orchestrated or have anything to do with the comment campaign. FCC paying the marketing company for fake comments would be psyops. What happened is a problem, but not what the OP was suggesting.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#77

Post by ThalesX »

philipov wrote: post #63
ThalesX wrote: post #16

I try to shy away from politics on this website but I can't shake this nagging feeling that this says something important about the current state of the US and the world. I am not a US citizen nor a resident, nor am I a Russian citizen or resident, so my opinions are absolutely subjective. I feel like whenever an external agent such as Russia opens up the troll farms, the US gets all up in arms about the threat to de…

> I try to shy away from politics on this website but... Who was it that said, "Those who don't do politics will have politics done to them"

I wholeheartedly agree, but this is a community where I would like to see less politics.

Outside of forums, I am involved in the low scale politics of where I live because, as that one person said, I like to at least have a say in the way I am governed.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#78

Post by ThalesX »

duxup wrote: post #70
ThalesX wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you consider the buzzfeed article "official declaration of countries"? No. > If two countries nuked each other and one complained more, would it matter? For me, yes, the official statements on the nuking countries would matter.

Why though? Countries make statements for internal audiences, external, etc. They're hardly a good indicator of much of anything. Let alone that you'd be basing your opinion about what they said, not what they did.

I base my opinions on a multitude of factors including and with giving great importance to what is being said. It’s easier for me to identify a lie from what is said and done at the source than from some 3rd party conspiracy machination.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#79

Post by duxup »

ThalesX wrote: post #78
duxup wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why though? Countries make statements for internal audiences, external, etc. They're hardly a good indicator of much of anything. Let alone that you'd be basing your opinion about what they said, not what they did.

I base my opinions on a multitude of factors including and with giving great importance to what is being said. It’s easier for me to identify a lie from what is said and done at the source than from some 3rd party conspiracy machination.

OK, It's hard to tell as most of your focus is on who says what here.

> than from some 3rd party conspiracy machination.

I've no idea what that means.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#80

Post by WillPostForFood »

murph-almighty wrote: post #68
WillPostForFood wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while they are doing it to their own citizens! That's not what the story is saying. The FCC didn't create any fake comments. From one we know so far, one "grassroots" marketing company has been identified as creating fake comments. Their client hasn't been identified, but likely is an ISP, or an ISP lobbying group. This is bad behavior, but far from the Government psyops on its own citizens. edit: yes, multiple indus…

> likely is an ISP, or an ISP lobbying group The devil is in the details here- consider the current state of regulatory capture of the FCC, where Ajit Pai is arguably representing the interests of his previous employer, Verizon. It's not a giant leap to argue that the placement of Pai and the comments on the net neutrality board were 1) orchestrated by Verizon and 2) strategically use the government as a proxy to hid…

I agree completely. And I'd go a little further, and say that allowing unaccountable commenting is incompetent or negligent. If there is going to be government sponsored public comment, there needs to a penalty for fraud.
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