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Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

buzzfeednews.com

21–30 of 95 posts

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#21
post #14
post #3

The story is that citizen have nothing to gain from anti net neutrality laws. So basically, all comments against net neutrality are either faked or by someone who has skin in the game. People ought to go to jail for this kind of crap.

I'm right there with you that "this sort of thing", i.e. deliberately subverting the process of democracy, should be a serious crime on par with treason. However, can we qualitatively define a line that demarcates "honest communication" from "malicious attempts to change public opinion"? You can't make it a crime to try convince people of things. The basic intent we would like to capture is it should be illegal to li…

Well, faking twitter accounts is one thing that should be dealt with, and I agree this is hard. But here, we're talking about spoofing actual people's identity without their knowledge.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#22
post #16

I try to shy away from politics on this website but I can't shake this nagging feeling that this says something important about the current state of the US and the world. I am not a US citizen nor a resident, nor am I a Russian citizen or resident, so my opinions are absolutely subjective. I feel like whenever an external agent such as Russia opens up the troll farms, the US gets all up in arms about the threat to de…

Most Russians get psyops TV and little internet

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#23
post #16

I try to shy away from politics on this website but I can't shake this nagging feeling that this says something important about the current state of the US and the world. I am not a US citizen nor a resident, nor am I a Russian citizen or resident, so my opinions are absolutely subjective. I feel like whenever an external agent such as Russia opens up the troll farms, the US gets all up in arms about the threat to de…

>and I don't hear about them actively targeting their own citizens in "psyops" with the same fervor as the US.

Both countries are well versed in the topic but of course your media diet might affect how much you see on it.

Historically more than half the budget and employees of the IRA is dedicated to Russian speaking internet users and have been involved in way more elaborate schemes directed at Russian electors. They've physically impersonated journalists and gone to the door of anti-government activists for example. The Russian government also has a tighter media machine to encircle their propaganda targets by coordinating their attacks using TV, press and internet assets directly aligned with the state.

In the USA sockpuppetting and astroturfing by political entities is usually discovered due to healthy democratic tensions where both camps get to freely express themselves when they discover them.

The "alt-right" has been building a network of media organizations but have a harder time getting their propaganda laundered by the traditional media who tend to vet what they air/publish. The political fracture of the USA makes it harder to convince the entire country on 1 topic. The recent failed attempts by Jacob Wohl to create "offline" pressure on Robert Mueller or Elizabeth Warren and have them laundered in traditional media is a sign they're trying but not connecting yet.

Finally the example here is less about a political operative trying to trick the American constituents than giving the FCC a pretext (or biased analysis) to say their policy was popular.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#24
post #14
post #3

The story is that citizen have nothing to gain from anti net neutrality laws. So basically, all comments against net neutrality are either faked or by someone who has skin in the game. People ought to go to jail for this kind of crap.

I'm right there with you that "this sort of thing", i.e. deliberately subverting the process of democracy, should be a serious crime on par with treason. However, can we qualitatively define a line that demarcates "honest communication" from "malicious attempts to change public opinion"? You can't make it a crime to try convince people of things. The basic intent we would like to capture is it should be illegal to li…

So on which side of your nebulous edge-casing slippery slope do you think hiring firms to write millions of fake comments from stolen identities to provide your captured regulator enough FUD should fall?

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#25
post #16

I try to shy away from politics on this website but I can't shake this nagging feeling that this says something important about the current state of the US and the world. I am not a US citizen nor a resident, nor am I a Russian citizen or resident, so my opinions are absolutely subjective. I feel like whenever an external agent such as Russia opens up the troll farms, the US gets all up in arms about the threat to de…

Most Russians get psyops TV and little internet

I am not aware of this, but upon a quick google I see the penetration is not that bad; in the U.S. it seems to be 88.5% [0] whereas in Russia it's 71.3% [1], so it's not all that far off.

Unless you are talking about the quantity of 'psyops' on the media channels and that I couldn't quantify.

[0] https://www.internetlivestats.com/internet-users/russia/

[1] https://www.internetlivestats.com/internet-users/us/

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#26
post #16

I try to shy away from politics on this website but I can't shake this nagging feeling that this says something important about the current state of the US and the world. I am not a US citizen nor a resident, nor am I a Russian citizen or resident, so my opinions are absolutely subjective. I feel like whenever an external agent such as Russia opens up the troll farms, the US gets all up in arms about the threat to de…

Not only that but it's legit hilarious how the US spent decades influencing (some times by force even) foreign elections and governments but suddenly when someone does it to them it's unacceptable.

It's pathetic.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#27
post #26
post #16

I try to shy away from politics on this website but I can't shake this nagging feeling that this says something important about the current state of the US and the world. I am not a US citizen nor a resident, nor am I a Russian citizen or resident, so my opinions are absolutely subjective. I feel like whenever an external agent such as Russia opens up the troll farms, the US gets all up in arms about the threat to de…

Not only that but it's legit hilarious how the US spent decades influencing (some times by force even) foreign elections and governments but suddenly when someone does it to them it's unacceptable. It's pathetic.

I wouldn't call it pathetic. Hypocrisy? Yes, but all countries do this. I'm a bit afraid for people living in any country believing their little piece of the planet doesn't engage in geopolitics.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#28
post #16

I try to shy away from politics on this website but I can't shake this nagging feeling that this says something important about the current state of the US and the world. I am not a US citizen nor a resident, nor am I a Russian citizen or resident, so my opinions are absolutely subjective. I feel like whenever an external agent such as Russia opens up the troll farms, the US gets all up in arms about the threat to de…

>and I don't hear about them actively targeting their own citizens in "psyops" with the same fervor as the US. Both countries are well versed in the topic but of course your media diet might affect how much you see on it. Historically more than half the budget and employees of the IRA is dedicated to Russian speaking internet users and have been involved in way more elaborate schemes directed at Russian electors. The…

Thanks for the comment, food for thought!

> Historically more than half the budget and employees of the IRA is dedicated to Russian speaking internet users and have been involved in way more elaborate schemes directed at Russian electors. They've physically impersonated journalists and gone to the door of anti-government activists for example. The Russian government also has a tighter media machine to encircle their propaganda targets by coordinating their attacks using TV, press and internet assets directly aligned with the state.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this were true. Russia's government viewed from a distance does seem like the kind of entity engaged in this kind of 'persuasion' and operations, even through third party 'private' entities.

> In the USA sockpuppetting and astroturfing by political entities is usually discovered due to healthy democratic tensions where both camps get to freely express themselves when they discover them.

I think there's danger in this kind of statement. If one truly believes one's country to have a healthy way of resolving such operations because the balance of powers is so great, that person is prime for getting manipulated as they are letting their guard down.

> Finally the example here is less about a political operative trying to trick the American constituents than giving the FCC a pretext (or biased analysis) to say their policy was popular.

I agree, however if you ask me this gives an even smaller group of people control of the majority than if the target would be directly influencing the average American constituent. I'm not sure if I understood the idea clearly, but it seems a lot more dangerous for an entity to just be able to justify its own actions in order to influence laws in a nation, than to have to go through the hurdle of influencing the masses.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#29

I guess my question is why did Buzzfeed write this now? Didn't we know that dead people and Barack Obama were sending in anti-net neutrality comments in 2017?

Because there are new developments in the case, sadly persisting the perversion. Context: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/10/why-ajit-pais-un...

Interesting that DNS Caching is cited as one of the reasons to uphold the reclassification.

Perhaps that is the grounding that should be used to promote additional 3rd party DNS resolvers

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