Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

buzzfeednews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 95 posts

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#41

Post by bhouston »

irjustin wrote: post #4

This is old news, well known and literally the whole "comments" was a sham anyway. The voting was controlled by 5 people and split on party lines 3-2 [0]. NN was never actually up for debate. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_in_the_United_S... - last paragraph

Someone should still go to jail for mass lying to the government. This would deter it in the future. Otherwise we are saying this is just the new standard operating procedure, astroturfing using dead people's identities is totally legal.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#42

Post by ThalesX »

coldcode wrote: post #38
lagadu wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that but it's legit hilarious how the US spent decades influencing (some times by force even) foreign elections and governments but suddenly when someone does it to them it's unacceptable. It's pathetic.

It's pathetic when people from any country equate what a country's politicians do with what their people want. I am not the US government. The US government may love the idea of foreign influence and hacking but a big chunk of its people do not. Please do not confuse these two things.

What's the alternative though? Politicians are elected by the people to represent the people's needs and wants because as of yet we can't really ask everyone's opinion on every decision. I think the political decisions of a country can be equated to the will of the majority, because every election cycle the majority can change their government's body. Or protest. Or get involved in politics.

Maybe you're not part of the majority, and you disagree with the majority's views, but I think it's not at all pathetic to equate the country's politicians with what the people want. You are not the US government, the the US government represents the US people's interests; both domestic and externally.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#43

Post by boomboomsubban »

coldcode wrote: post #38
lagadu wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that but it's legit hilarious how the US spent decades influencing (some times by force even) foreign elections and governments but suddenly when someone does it to them it's unacceptable. It's pathetic.

It's pathetic when people from any country equate what a country's politicians do with what their people want. I am not the US government. The US government may love the idea of foreign influence and hacking but a big chunk of its people do not. Please do not confuse these two things.

> I am not the US government.

Yes, sadly, you are. "We the people" is the foundation of the US government.

Our failure to prevent the government from pursuing these actions makes us tacitly responsible for them, even though there is virtually no path available to prevent them.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#44

Post by alwayseasy »

ThalesX wrote: post #28
alwayseasy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and I don't hear about them actively targeting their own citizens in "psyops" with the same fervor as the US. Both countries are well versed in the topic but of course your media diet might affect how much you see on it. Historically more than half the budget and employees of the IRA is dedicated to Russian speaking internet users and have been involved in way more elaborate schemes directed at Russian electors. The…

Thanks for the comment, food for thought! > Historically more than half the budget and employees of the IRA is dedicated to Russian speaking internet users and have been involved in way more elaborate schemes directed at Russian electors. They've physically impersonated journalists and gone to the door of anti-government activists for example. The Russian government also has a tighter media machine to encircle their…

> I think there's danger in this kind of statement.

I agree, my intention isn't to encourage people in the US to let their guard down but rather give an explanation on how structural differences between Russia and the USA lead to different propaganda and manipulation dynamics.

Citizens in democracies can and are manipulated by many different actors, it's just that these actors are more likely to be adversarial at some point. Healthy media competition and freedoms are a good antidote but not the silver bullet.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#45

Post by dTal »

PeterStuer wrote: post #24
dTal wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm right there with you that "this sort of thing", i.e. deliberately subverting the process of democracy, should be a serious crime on par with treason. However, can we qualitatively define a line that demarcates "honest communication" from "malicious attempts to change public opinion"? You can't make it a crime to try convince people of things. The basic intent we would like to capture is it should be illegal to li…

So on which side of your nebulous edge-casing slippery slope do you think hiring firms to write millions of fake comments from stolen identities to provide your captured regulator enough FUD should fall?

...the bad side? I thought I was very clear about that. I don't really understand why I'm catching flak.

Obviously the stolen identities is something we can definitively point to that can fairly straightforwardly be made illegal, if it isn't already. But most astroturfing campaigns don't do that, and although it makes this a particularly compelling case it's not actually the meatiest part of what makes it bad. Millions of comments from invented accounts to provide background FUD would also be very evil. But what part of that can we actually make illegal, without also compromising the free speech of you and me? Hiring PR firms? Writing comments on the internet? Unfortunately, "I know sketchy shit when I see it" just isn't good enough.

I'm not sure what you think I'm arguing. I want there to be answer. I was hoping for suggestions.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#46

Post by jacquesm »

PeterStuer wrote: post #15
ryanmarsh wrote: post #13

Astroturfing, troll farms, and AI driven slide bots are the future of discourse where the stakes are high and the conversation is in any way connected to the internet. This will affect all parties on all sides of all debates. I have no idea what this means for society or what should be done about it.

Welcome to the post-truth society. Where this will end nobody knows, but that it will take us into some new 'dark ages' already seems pretty likely.

I would argue that we are already well underway towards those 'dark ages'. The fact is that today if you compare the quality of the news and the deluge of information you are bombarded with with say the news grade at the end of the 80's, just before the internet became a commodity that we've slid backwards considerably.

Losing quality newspapers as a source of information and replacing them with the current crop of online news sources, filter bubbles and the twitterverse does not feel at all like an improvement to me.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#47

Post by 300bps »

mwyah wrote: post #9
d--b wrote: post #3

The story is that citizen have nothing to gain from anti net neutrality laws. So basically, all comments against net neutrality are either faked or by someone who has skin in the game. People ought to go to jail for this kind of crap.

>The story is that citizen have nothing to gain from anti net neutrality laws. Uh? I very much enjoy my zero-rated services.

Uh? I very much enjoy my zero-rated services.

It is fantastically ironic that this anti net neutrality comment was posted with a 17 hour old throw-away account.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#48

Post by elliekelly »

pjc50 wrote: post #32
dTal wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm right there with you that "this sort of thing", i.e. deliberately subverting the process of democracy, should be a serious crime on par with treason. However, can we qualitatively define a line that demarcates "honest communication" from "malicious attempts to change public opinion"? You can't make it a crime to try convince people of things. The basic intent we would like to capture is it should be illegal to li…

This line works OK for ordinary fraud, and even in the complex space of securities offerings.

You might find the controversial legal concept of “Honest Services Fraud”[1] interesting.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honest_services_fraud

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#49

Post by mwyah »

300bps wrote: post #47
mwyah wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The story is that citizen have nothing to gain from anti net neutrality laws. Uh? I very much enjoy my zero-rated services.

Uh? I very much enjoy my zero-rated services. It is fantastically ironic that this anti net neutrality comment was posted with a 17 hour old throw-away account.

dang can attest that I've been here for years. :-)

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that customers like zero-rating services. Just think of it: for many people Facebook is the Internet. How is an exemption from the data cap for Facebook a bad thing for the end consumer? Yeah I know, maybe not a good idea in the long term regarding competition, but I don't think customers care too much about that.

Re: Political Operatives Faked Millions of Comments Against Net Nuetrality

#50

Post by analCavitation »

Penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis.
Post reply on HN