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China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

asiatimes.com

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Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#411

Post by eddieplan9 »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #344
saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

The irony of a train called "bullet train" (San Francisco Bay Area) when it goes at an average of 30-35 mph.

First, it’s called “baby bullet express service”. Second, even the high-speed trains in China do not travel at high speed in city core (IIRC <80kph).

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#412

Post by dosy »

saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

[dead]

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#413

Post by oinkl »

aeternum wrote: post #279
qwerty456127 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hate the fact that an autocratic and repulsive Government The Chinese government is much more autocratic yet it obviously does a much better job in building infrastructure The problem with the US government is lobbyism. It does not work for itself, it does not work for the people, it works for big corporations and lawyers.

One of the problems may actually be rights. The US government generally has more respect for individual rights and property rights. This leads to increased safety regulations, work restrictions, and the property rights make it difficult to purchase the land and negotiate the permits necessary for large infrastructure projects. China is much more willing to force people out of their homes for the greater good. It will…

Reading the Wikipedia page on HSR in China, maybe they don't respect individual land rights, but it does seem like the government does respond to some extent to citizens concerns.

"Residents living along the proposed maglev route have raised health concerns about noise and electromagnetic radiation emitted by the trains, despite an environmental assessment by the Shanghai Academy of Environmental Sciences saying the line was safe.[26] These concerns have prevented the construction of the proposed extension of the maglev to Hangzhou."

"In 2003, the MOR was believed to favor Japan's Shinkansen technology, especially the 700 series.[29] However, Chinese citizens angry with Japan's denial of World War II atrocities organized a web campaign to oppose the awarding of HSR contracts to Japanese companies. The protests gathered over a million signatures and politicized the issue.[31] The MOR delayed the decision, broadened the bidding and adopted a diversified approach to adopting foreign high-speed train technology."

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#414

Post by garmaine »

puranjay wrote: post #408
factsaresacred wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> high speed rail is romanticism from bygone days when rail was the only alternative to long distance travel Yes, the 'bygone days' of maglev trains. I don't know if you've ever travelled in Japan or China but the convenience and comfort of high speed rail easily surpasses flying. And in many cases, so does the speed. In most normal countries, rail is critical transport infrastructure. It's not a conspiracy.

Stretch your legs, go to any one of the several bathrooms at any time, hang out in the pantry car and even get a proper meal. Store all the luggage you want. Arrive just 20 minutes before the departure and still have time to laze around. Board/deboard in the center of the city rather than 40kms in the outskirts. The benefits of rail over air are absolutely endless. And I haven't even mentioned the lower carbon footpr…

> you can make electricity from renewable sources. Can't make jet fuel

This isn't true BTW. Biofuels are made by pulling CO2 out of the atmosphere.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#415

Post by astrodust »

Fricken wrote: post #394
astrodust wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not sprawl, it's that the United States, and by extension Canada, have extensive freight rail systems but almost zero exclusively passenger rail networks. In Europe and Asia these networks are generally separated. The American model means that passenger trains need to be built to freight-train safety standards, that a passenger car must be engineered to "survive" a potential collision with a freight train, since…

I recently took VIA rail, from Vancouver to Edmonton. Partway through the trip the attendant announces we'll be 6-10 hours late, which is normal. It hasn't been on time since April. Some daft Europeans with a connecting flight were relieved that we pulled in to Edmonton only 2 hours late! The best in weeks!

It's highly probable that a trip in 1919 across Canada by train and a trip in 2019 take the same amount of time.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#416

Post by realusername »

beerandt wrote: post #92
saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

Infrastructure is easy (and cheap) when you don't have to respect property rights or do environmental impact studies. Skipping phase 0 design also eliminates any potential political and nimby dissent (where all options are ruled out as "unfeasible").

environmental impact studies were not done for highways either and they are much worse environmentally.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#417

Post by Gustomaximus »

tachyonbeam wrote: post #397
qwerty456127 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hate the fact that an autocratic and repulsive Government The Chinese government is much more autocratic yet it obviously does a much better job in building infrastructure The problem with the US government is lobbyism. It does not work for itself, it does not work for the people, it works for big corporations and lawyers.

I've heard that whereas American politicians are mostly lawyers, Chinese politicians are mostly engineers. If true, that would partly explain why they get a lot more done. Another factor may be that the US has elections every 4 year. There is no long-term planning happening, because who knows what's happening in 4 years. Too much energy is spent on political campaigns, destroying your opponent and getting re-elected.

With you on the lawyers. Not sure about the cycles.

If you go back 50 years there were still the same election cycles but countries, not just US, were getting volumes of serious projects done.

I think its more abut the mindset change in both politicions and votes. Back then we were nation building. People expected some sacrifice to create a better future and they were witnessing this progress.

Today many people are seeing their quality of life reduce and this creates a focus on grabbing yours and looking for quick wins.

We have a great example in Australia where the govt tried to roll out nation fibre broadband. The oposition critisied what was largely a good plan as far as I can tell simply because they were the opposition. The opposition won the next election, implemented their 'this saves money' plan and fucked it leaving our country with a $50bn project that has done bugger all to improve internet.

Also now its buggered I regularily see people posting things like "why should my tax dollars pay to fix it, if you want fast interent you should pay yourself" type thing. This rather than, this is the modern circulation system of the economy and if we dont fix it our country will lose significant future oppurtunity.

But yeah we have a huge proportion of lawyer politicions in Aus and I think this is an issue. We should be looking for genuine 'doer' skill sets. I almost wonder if we should ban running as political parties and people have to run as themself so we fcus on theier histor and achivements more rather than are they my tribe.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#418

Post by WalterBright »

usaar333 wrote: post #163
saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

The alternative to being stuck in traffic for hours is flying. A major problem with train systems in the United States (and this is both short and long haul) is that almost the entire country is sprawl - built around the automobile. In dense environments (China and the north-east coast of the US (which has Acela), it's great to take a train into the core -- you beat traffic and are near your destination. In sprawling…

> killing the ROI on building the train in the first place

In Seattle the light rail was pressured to serve the poor communities. Once built, they belatedly discovered that a transit station causes gentrification around it, pushing out the longtime residents. So they've tried zoning to prevent development around the transit station, which then reduces the ROI on the system.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#419

Post by WalterBright »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #363
jfim wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tokyo to Kyoto one way is 13,080 yen ($120) for the cheapest ticket, for a distance of 226 miles. About the same distance as DC to New York. > A lot of people think high speed rail would be cheaper to flying, in reality it's often the same or more than flying today. It's a lot more comfortable, and you end up in a downtown location instead of an airport on the outskirts of the city.

That obviously varies drastically by city. In this case, DC and Tokyo have airports close to downtown and connected by subway. And these airports could connect you to the entire world of course, rather than within ~500 miles (reasonably). And the only reason train stations are downtown is due to historical reasons. If you had to make a 35 track train station today in your average American city, it would very likely n…

> If you had to make a 35 track train station today in your average American city, it would very likely not be downtown.

In Seattle, the trains used to run through the city. The corridors are still there, but the new light rail system avoids using them, making it far, far more expensive.

They recently dug a new transit tunnel under the city. The best use for the old tunnel they could think of was to fill it with the rubble dug out of the new one.

The expensive tunnel boring machine was sold for scrap.

I don't understand the thought processes involved in these decisions.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#420

Post by adinobro »

saalweachter wrote: post #370
gwright wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I commute by train to New Haven on the same tracks that Acela uses. The existing track corridor in New England is not appropriate for true high-speed train service. That really requires new right-of-ways, which would be extremely expensive in the Northeast. There are currently plans for the next version of Acela but it is more about replacing aging equipment than any true speed upgrade. The Acela trains are almost 20…

I would note that not only do you need to acquire a lot of property on straight lines, you need to do so while resolving to not benefit anywhere between your start and end points . Non-stop is an important element of a truly fast train. Firstly because you don't want to be constantly stopping and starting, but also because you don't want to detour your route through a dozen cities which aren't conveniently on a strai…

That isn't true. You have multiple tracks for a reason. Generally, you have three separate trains on the same tracks and a sidetrack that goes into the cities or two tracks that split before the city and merge after the city.

1. Direct - They have the least stops and are the fastest. They don't go into towns. They go around them. 2. Express - They only stop at the largest towns. 3. Regular - They are the slowest and stop at every town.

You then use timing to make sure that they don't crash. The slow train will generally stop on the track and wait while the direct overtakes it (you don't want them both moving at the same time).

This isn't new. It's be around for 100 of years.

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