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Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

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Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#411

Post by dontbenebby »

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #181
Kinnard wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Second Great CryptoWar: https://reason.com/2013/03/12/the-second-great-crypto-war/ > "The proponents of this process use fear tactics to win support, what the four cypherpunks dub "The Four Horsemen of the Info-pocalypse: child pornography, terrorism, money laundering, and the War on Some Drugs." In other words, laws passed to go after child pornographers, terrorists, money launderers, and drug dealers end up chi…

I'm not entirely sure how those four examples are supposedly invalidated by giving them a clever nickname. I'll take the privacy side in most any discussion of privacy-vs-security, but categorically denying the possibility that some crimes could be aided by encryption seems a step to far. It's also bad PR strategy: anybody not already on your side will be put off by your apparent lack of reasoning skills. Instead, ac…

Unfortunately vast swathes of the population are not able to process nuance. Even if you gently point out that North Korea is probably one of the few "crime free" societies they don't seem to parse that a world of total security cannot coexist in a nation that values freedom.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#412

Post by throw0101a »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #254
IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not entirely sure how those four examples are supposedly invalidated by giving them a clever nickname. I'll take the privacy side in most any discussion of privacy-vs-security, but categorically denying the possibility that some crimes could be aided by encryption seems a step to far. It's also bad PR strategy: anybody not already on your side will be put off by your apparent lack of reasoning skills. Instead, ac…

> I'm not entirely sure how those four examples are supposedly invalidated by giving them a clever nickname. They're not. A number of horrible things will happen as a result of pervasive end to end encryption. However. You have to run the numbers here. On the one hand, perhaps a bit more crime, some of which horrible. On the other hand, the privacy of everyone . It's a hard sell. Just picture a politician on live tel…

> It's a hard sell. Just picture a politician on live television having to choose between having this cute little child being raped for years before they commit suicide (letting the perpetrators off the hook), or ramp up the surveillance a bit. Picture them choosing rape.

This was tried by a Canadian Minister at one point to sell surveillance in this extreme way:

> In February 2012, as Minister, Toews introduced the Protecting Children from Internet Predators Act (also known as Bill C-30).[118][119] The bill, which made no mention of children or "Internet predators" outside of its title,[120] would have granted police agencies expanded powers, mandate that internet service providers (ISPs) provide subscriber information without a warrant and compel providers to reveal information transmitted over their networks with a warrant. When criticised about privacy concerns, Toews responded that people "can either stand with us or with the child pornographers."[121]

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vic_Toews#Federal_Minister_of_...

The legislation in question went down in flames as plenty of people sided "with the child pornographers":

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Children_from_Inter...

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#416

Post by bArray »

> the letter raises concerns that Facebook’s plan to build

> end-to-end encryption into its messaging apps will prevent

> law enforcement agencies from finding illegal activity

> conducted through Facebook, including child sexual

> exploitation, terrorism, and election meddling.

Not buying the case for the protection of children from the UK, after repeated failures to protect children despite mountains of evidence [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10]. Finding pedophiles is relatively easy in the UK, they are one of the single most hated groups and often cited as the reason to bring back capital punishment.

Terrorists are already using encrypted chat services such as Telegram to evade intelligence agencies. Encryption has no influence over election meddling.

What this is really about is watching the general public. Facebook now blocks content even in private messages. The other day I wanted to share a free-documentary (i.e. fully legal) with a friend and so shared a page with a direct download and magnetic link, which in turn Facebook kindly blocked. Something that is pouted as "safety" is actually just about trying to line the pockets of the film/music industry.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploit...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derby_child_sex_abuse_ring

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield_grooming_gang

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Savile_sexual_abuse_scan...

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_child_sex_abuse_rin...

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_sex_abuse_ring

[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Wales_child_abuse_scanda...

[8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oulu_child_sexual_exploitation...

[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_child_sex_abuse_ring

[10] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_child_sex_abuse_ring

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#417

Post by Snickelfritz72 »

I claim Citizen Privilege per the Constitution and the "... Supreme Court has found that the Constitution implicitly grants a right to privacy against governmental intrusion from the First Amendment, Third Amendment, Fourth Amendment, and the Fifth Amendment." Law enforcement rooted out criminals and organized crime before end-to-end encryption and you can do so now. YOU, a hypocrite who testified he was against law enforcement spying on Americans while investigating if a possible crime was occurring ... even if they have probable cause. Public Safety my Ass! https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Right_to_privacy

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#418

Post by cududa »

drawkbox wrote: post #376

It is amazing to me that people that are supposedly "pro-business" and "pro-market" are against encryption. Mostly encryption protects privacy and business information. Corporate espionage is bigger than state espionage or terrorism my many multiples, and directly threatens national security as well as markets. Encryption is pro-business and pro-privacy for business and individuals. Without encryption or with backdoo…

They’re pro-whatever-gets-them-political-wins. Sometimes it’s “protect rights of businesses!” sometimes it’s “think of the children!” ️

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#419

Post by arknave »

awaythrowacct wrote: post #252
brunoTbear wrote: post #24

The claim of catching 99% of activity is really hard to justify. In many detection systems you cannot know your true number of false negatives. It's inherently unknowable in this case. A better metric would be mean time to detection for a given CEP sharer or perhaps a metric around how much CEP is shared before detection, or perhaps a metric for network size of CEP and how well FB can clean up an entire network at on…

It's easy to detect a vast amount of child porn, simply because the vast majority of child porn sharing is just a few thousand different files, shared over and over again. A few hundred thousand files if you count the non-nude and nude "child modelling" stuff, too. You can catch a majority of such content just by running a dumb hash over the bits, even though the detection rate suffered a little thanks to dumb smartp…

> There have been a few studies that found that the group of people consuming child abuse media and the group that actually molests and rapes children doesn't have too much overlap, contrary to what one might expect.

Do you have some links for this? I've anecdotally heard it both ways.

https://olemiss.edu/depts/ncjrl/pdf/I%20C%20A%20C/2013%20-%2... seems to imply the opposite.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#420

Post by [deleted] »

awaythrowacct wrote: post #252
brunoTbear wrote: post #24

The claim of catching 99% of activity is really hard to justify. In many detection systems you cannot know your true number of false negatives. It's inherently unknowable in this case. A better metric would be mean time to detection for a given CEP sharer or perhaps a metric around how much CEP is shared before detection, or perhaps a metric for network size of CEP and how well FB can clean up an entire network at on…

It's easy to detect a vast amount of child porn, simply because the vast majority of child porn sharing is just a few thousand different files, shared over and over again. A few hundred thousand files if you count the non-nude and nude "child modelling" stuff, too. You can catch a majority of such content just by running a dumb hash over the bits, even though the detection rate suffered a little thanks to dumb smartp…

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