China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains • Hacker News Board

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#271

Post by ApolloFortyNine » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 10:53 PM UTC

Slartie wrote: post #229

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are two factors at play here. 1) We have the curse of being first. Our cities are old so our infrastructure is old. 2) We can't just say, "Your land is ours, get the fuck out, construction begins in one week" They can also cut corners on safety and pollution. The ends always justify the means.

The US doesn’t really have problems cutting corners when it comes to safety and pollution as well. For safety, look at the standard US power outlet and compare its safety with practically any other outlet in the world, of which all of them are considerably safer (albeit at the expense of being more complex and/or larger). For pollution, look at the current US Government actions.

>For safety, look at the standard US power outlet and compare its safety with practically any other outlet in the world, of which all of them are considerably safer

You judging the U.S for something they did first is only proving the point. It'd be great if we could up our voltage from 120 and change the plugs, but after a point it's just too expensive to change. And it's not as if tens of thousands are dying due to 3 prong outlets...

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#272

Post by pmontra » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 10:54 PM UTC

factsaresacred wrote: post #265

Shivetya wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simple truth is, transportation projects are not created to solve problems but instead of pay off political affiliates, be they donors, family members, political parties, or the unions. Democrats have no more interest in high speed rail or energy independence than Republicans and for the same reason. Oh they will pay lip service saying otherwise but you can see the results of all those years they have made their…

> high speed rail is romanticism from bygone days when rail was the only alternative to long distance travel Yes, the 'bygone days' of maglev trains. I don't know if you've ever travelled in Japan or China but the convenience and comfort of high speed rail easily surpasses flying. And in many cases, so does the speed. In most normal countries, rail is critical transport infrastructure. It's not a conspiracy.

Agreed. I regularly use high speed trains for every journey up to 4 hours, maybe 5.

I've been on vacation in China in 2015. I preferred the high speed train over the standard delay of one or two hours because of airspace traffic congestion.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#273

Post by michannne » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 10:55 PM UTC

saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

From what I remember reading, the train infrastructure in the East would never survive here in the States because our urban and rural layout structures are fundamentally different, meaning there are some large scale construction projects that are not feasibly profitable here, likewise in the East.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#274

Post by NikolaeVarius » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 10:58 PM UTC

moju wrote: post #170

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are two factors at play here. 1) We have the curse of being first. Our cities are old so our infrastructure is old. 2) We can't just say, "Your land is ours, get the fuck out, construction begins in one week" They can also cut corners on safety and pollution. The ends always justify the means.

Your country is not even 250 years old. There are older cities with better infrastructure.

Firebombing tends to.tear down old infrastructure pretty effectively

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#275

Post by avocado4 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 11:01 PM UTC

saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

> while the US govt is dropping taxes for the biggest companies

California has no shortage of funding for the transit. The failed bullet connection had more funding then the system in China that carries 10x people. Stop blaming "evil corporations" for failures of local and State governments.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#276

Post by bpicolo » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 11:04 PM UTC

toephu2 wrote: post #173

cabaalis wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful comparing a system which can simply take the land and labor it wants to one in which people have rights.

Not quite true, in China the government usually tries to compensate you fairly for your house and cannot "force" you to leave (although I'm sure it happens). https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/01/chinese-highwa...

> All land in China is state-owned, and residents are typically offered a fraction of their home's original value in compensation.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#277

Post by yourbandsucks » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 11:06 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #255

bobthepanda wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese airspace is already incredibly congested and unreliable. They just had to build a new 100-million capacity airport for Beijing because of a lack of capacity at the existing airport. The alternative to not continuing to build up rail is that people start not making trips within China due to the difficulty. (Obvious grandstanding projects like HSR to Urumqi and Lhasa not included.)

Rail yes, highspeed rail maybe not. Whether china has the market and will to sustain widespread 1000kph rail is untested.

6h vs 18h for a trip are two different universes. Sleeper trains are cool and all but a shorter ride is better.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#278

Post by turtlecloud » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 11:07 PM UTC

factsaresacred wrote: post #265

Shivetya wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simple truth is, transportation projects are not created to solve problems but instead of pay off political affiliates, be they donors, family members, political parties, or the unions. Democrats have no more interest in high speed rail or energy independence than Republicans and for the same reason. Oh they will pay lip service saying otherwise but you can see the results of all those years they have made their…

> high speed rail is romanticism from bygone days when rail was the only alternative to long distance travel Yes, the 'bygone days' of maglev trains. I don't know if you've ever travelled in Japan or China but the convenience and comfort of high speed rail easily surpasses flying. And in many cases, so does the speed. In most normal countries, rail is critical transport infrastructure. It's not a conspiracy.

yep - once u factor in the TSA body shakedown and traffic to airport, then it about evens out air travel.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#279

Post by aeternum » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 11:08 PM UTC

qwerty456127 wrote: post #209

saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

> I hate the fact that an autocratic and repulsive Government The Chinese government is much more autocratic yet it obviously does a much better job in building infrastructure The problem with the US government is lobbyism. It does not work for itself, it does not work for the people, it works for big corporations and lawyers.

One of the problems may actually be rights. The US government generally has more respect for individual rights and property rights. This leads to increased safety regulations, work restrictions, and the property rights make it difficult to purchase the land and negotiate the permits necessary for large infrastructure projects.

China is much more willing to force people out of their homes for the greater good. It will be interesting to see which prevails.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#280

Post by cnlevy » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 11:09 PM UTC

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #204

saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

I am so glad California did not spend $80+ billion on the high-speed SF to LA rail project. It makes no sense. Flying from SF to LA would be faster than the train. Driving isn't that bad either and once you get to LA you need a car to get around. If you really want to take the train to LA there is already a beautiful route on Amtrak along the coast.

Take the Paris-Lyon TGV. For about 30$ minimum price, you get from city center to city center, 300 miles away in 2 hours. There are trains every 30 minutes.