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China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

asiatimes.com

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Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#231

Post by Gibbon1 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #154
Gibbon1 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Jerry Brown tried to build the CA bullet train 4 decades ago. Amusing to me he did the Rip Van Winkle and popped up as Governor again after 30 years. In office he pushed hard to get CHSR built. Every time California's high speed rails come up on HN it's obvious that everyone here hates the idea. So the US is getting what it's collectively asking for and deserves here.

> Every time California's high speed rails come up on HN it's obvious that everyone here hates the idea California's major cities are almost in a line along the coast. That's the route that makes sense. California's HSR instead took a tour through the Central Valley's farming communities, taking a slam dunk pitch for linking San Francisco and San Diego via L.A. and turning it into a carcass.

Six and a half million people live in the Central Valley. So it's about 15% of the state population. And running high speed rail through the central valley is fairly cheep. The planned high speed rail line tends to follow the existing freight rail lines.

Always possible to build the high speed rail and then run another connector down the Salinas Valley between Monterrey and Santa Barbara on to Thousand Oaks. (Following HWY 101 basically) Political opposition that is probably bigger than the geography though.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#232

Post by polemic »

Shivetya wrote: post #215
saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

The simple truth is, transportation projects are not created to solve problems but instead of pay off political affiliates, be they donors, family members, political parties, or the unions. Democrats have no more interest in high speed rail or energy independence than Republicans and for the same reason. Oh they will pay lip service saying otherwise but you can see the results of all those years they have made their…

> high speed rail is romanticism from bygone days when rail was the only alternative to long distance travel. air travel pretty much superseded it and is doing so all over the world.

This isn't true. High speed rail is alive and well in Europe. Geography, politics and history are all significant factors that you can't explain so easily.

> the advent of self driving and electric cars will doom them regardless

Highly speculative. Nothing beats rail for capacity to move a lot of people around quickly.

> So rail is more of a benefit for the well to do

Quite the opposite.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#233

Post by akvadrako »

beerandt wrote: post #142
akvadrako wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find anything online that suggests air is ever cleaner than rail. The discrepancy is a factor of 20¹, so it would be surprising if circumstances overcame that, unless you are traveling across an ocean. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_transp...

For idealized shorter range distances (300~350 miles) I've seen claims of 2x or 2.5x, sometimes up to 5x, but that's using full LCA, not just fuel per passenger mile. The embedded energy in ROW and track are significant, and it doesn't scale well (capacity wise) compared to air travel.

2x/5x in which direction? Link?

I mean transport uses so much fuel I would be surprised over the lifetime of a rail line the infrastructure costs are over 95% of the total cost.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#234

Post by samtimalsina »

chao- wrote: post #147
saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

I agree with your sentiments overall, so don't take my "it's not all gloom and doom" comment as a disagreement... But there are people out there trying! The project from Texas Central Railways is looking like a sooner bet than California's line, for a number of reasons. An example of a reason is lower price, stemming from geography. The route doesn't require building tunnels through mountains and the like. Although e…

I did not know about this project at all. I live in North Dallas, and this is absolutely fabulous news.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#235

Post by xvedejas »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #164
saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

I think there are two factors at play here. 1) We have the curse of being first. Our cities are old so our infrastructure is old. 2) We can't just say, "Your land is ours, get the fuck out, construction begins in one week" They can also cut corners on safety and pollution. The ends always justify the means.

Japan has great high speed rail, without cutting corners and even with much weaker eminent domain powers. There are other factors at play here. Why is building rail infrastructure 5x more expensive in the US than it is in continental Europe?

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#236

Post by bob1029 »

usrusr wrote: post #160
NamTaf wrote: post #82

I’m not sure if it’s just lost in translation, but Wuhan to Guangzhou isn’t even 1000 km so I don’t know where they get the 2200 km they’re quoting. That’s likely a figure for GZ to Beijing. I have used the high speed line between Wuhan and GZ (and through to HK) several times. It’s currently a 4.5 hour direct journey (once per day) or a 5 hour journey if you change at GZ or Shenzhen. The HSR is 300ish km/h at the mo…

> only to stop 4-5 times along the way That's the big one. What HSR needs is not even higher top speed but some control breakthrough that allows much higher train frequencies in order to cut down on stops via more trains that can serve more specialized connections (e.g. the local/through etc). No idea what that breakthrough might be, perhaps something as crazy as rocket-assisted emergency braking.

Why not aero braking? You could install little flaps actuated with hydraulics along the train. This could probably be part of the normal braking system. The amount of drag produced by something like this at 1000kmh would likely be very substantial.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#237

Post by uwuhn »

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #204
saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

I am so glad California did not spend $80+ billion on the high-speed SF to LA rail project. It makes no sense. Flying from SF to LA would be faster than the train. Driving isn't that bad either and once you get to LA you need a car to get around. If you really want to take the train to LA there is already a beautiful route on Amtrak along the coast.

I did that Amtrak route (Coastal Starlight) recently and it just took so long. I'd rather take a bus next time. I won't be doing either, though -- I'll just fly. It costs the same anyways.

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#238

Post by kurtisc »

usaar333 wrote: post #163
saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

The alternative to being stuck in traffic for hours is flying. A major problem with train systems in the United States (and this is both short and long haul) is that almost the entire country is sprawl - built around the automobile. In dense environments (China and the north-east coast of the US (which has Acela), it's great to take a train into the core -- you beat traffic and are near your destination. In sprawling…

China is dense? This is a study working towards connecting cities >900 km apart.

edit: article says 2200, maps says 900ish

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#239

Post by xz0r »

Shivetya wrote: post #215
saberience wrote: post #28

So, as someone that lived in New York for 6 years and California for 6 years, stories like this are incredibly depressing. The US is the world's largest economy and should be the shining example of amazing infrastructure, high-tech, green cities, and forward thinking policies. California is an especially egregious example in terms of infrastructure investment: If California was a country it would be the world's fifth…

The simple truth is, transportation projects are not created to solve problems but instead of pay off political affiliates, be they donors, family members, political parties, or the unions. Democrats have no more interest in high speed rail or energy independence than Republicans and for the same reason. Oh they will pay lip service saying otherwise but you can see the results of all those years they have made their…

> the advent of self driving and electric cars will doom them regardless.

Fully autonomous self driving cars are decades away[0] - assuming 15-20 years that about 20% of one's lifetime, developing rail is only a few years effort.

I do not understand how electric cars would doom rail.

[0]https://www.businessinsider.in/transportation/cars/experts-s...

Re: China laying tracks for 1,000km/h maglev trains

#240

Post by kurtisc »

NamTaf wrote: post #82

I’m not sure if it’s just lost in translation, but Wuhan to Guangzhou isn’t even 1000 km so I don’t know where they get the 2200 km they’re quoting. That’s likely a figure for GZ to Beijing. I have used the high speed line between Wuhan and GZ (and through to HK) several times. It’s currently a 4.5 hour direct journey (once per day) or a 5 hour journey if you change at GZ or Shenzhen. The HSR is 300ish km/h at the mo…

That's only if it does stop 4-5 times, though. Japan's HSR has trains where some stop at intermediate stations and some just go between major cities.
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