Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

buzzfeednews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 592 posts

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#201

Post by Johnny555 »

smueller1234 wrote: post #83
Johnny555 wrote: post #44

"We are writing to request that Facebook does not proceed with its plan to implement end-to-end encryption across its messaging services without ensuring that there is no reduction to user safety." I don't understand why they don't just ask for what they want, why say it's about "user safety" when it's not about that at all. Just say "As a matter of national security, the government needs to be able to read user mess…

Quite simply because this makes it hard for Facebook to fight back. If they do, they look like they're on the wrong side of morality. If the demand was phrased around security, it would be less emotionally laden (for most).

I'd be awfully surprised if anyone that really cares about this would be fooled by this ruse. For most people, if the government says "We need to do this so you'll be safe", the vast majority of people will agree, or at least won't actively object.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#202

Post by JohnFen »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #78
wonderwonder wrote: post #12

Sometimes I can understand the willingness to reduce the privacy of self and others in order to ensure that the law is able to prosecute those involved in heinous crimes. Our current political environment though involved a president openly calling on foreign governments to investigate his political opponents. What is to stop them from going after the private communications of those same opponents in the name of targe…

> Encrypt it, end to end, the government does not need to be able access all private communications of private citizens. Law enforcement and security agencies need to be able to access any communication. This does not mean that they should monitor all communications. They can eavesdrop on any phone call. They do not eavesdrop on all phone calls. The problem with E2E encryption is that it prevents eavesdropping even w…

> Law enforcement and security agencies need to be able to access any communication.

I don't agree with this -- but I think this does strike at the very heart of what the debate is all about.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#203

Post by SamBam »

cameronbrown wrote: post #174
lonelappde wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of those two things are facts. One is an opinion, and the other is speculation.

When did GP specify he was talking about facts?

I edited my comment from "facts" to "things," which was actually what I meant. Apologies. I'll clarify, so as not to disparage the person who replied.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#204

Post by hannasanarion »

lilott8 wrote: post #123
hannasanarion wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A third party observer cannot read the messages as they pass through the whatsapp network, but Facebook can read the messages at both ends. Facebook has said that they don't do this outside of Australia, where it is required by law, but come on, are we really going to take Zuckerberg's word for it?

This is what I find so fascinating. Yes, it cannot be intercepted in transit. But nothing is stopping the keyboard on which I type or the text box in which I type from collecting all the things and sending those things where ever they want. In-transit interception, in this context, seems like a fruitless threat model when compared to the keyboard/text box vector.

With respect to facebook in particular, they have had the means of reading the messages on either side for ages, even before it was required by law. iOS and Android both have "leaky sandboxing", where certain apps from the same publisher can read each other's data and memory, and Facebook added WhatsApp to its sandbox almost immediately after acquiring it, allowing the main Facebook and Messenger apps to read all the messages received by WhatsApp.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#205

Post by [deleted] »

hannasanarion wrote: post #74
RoboTeddy wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can they know they capture 99% of such content given that WhatsApp is (if I understand correctly) encrypted fully end to end such that Facebook cannot access the messages passing through it?

A third party observer cannot read the messages as they pass through the whatsapp network, but Facebook can read the messages at both ends. Facebook has said that they don't do this outside of Australia, where it is required by law, but come on, are we really going to take Zuckerberg's word for it?

[deleted]

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#206

Post by cwkoss »

edmundsauto wrote: post #167
salawat wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not quite getting it. You measure accuracy of detection via a training set of definitely known examples, and comparing it to the detections reported by your system. You can say with certainty that their system catches 99% of your training data set, but that doesn't mean it Will generalize to "all permutations of child abuse ever". That's two totally different things. In the end their use of that statistic illu…

By this standard, no system could ever say that it generalizes to all permutations. Especially when the definition of the measurement outcome (child abuse) varies.

This is true. Until we implement omnipotent god-AIs, generalizable perfection is an unattainable standard.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#207

Post by jefftk »

thelittleone wrote: post #192
mLuby wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alexa should be enough…

100%. There is no convenience that would ever convince me to have an always on listening device in my home. PRISM was proof that governments pressure tech companies to become sources. How to build a program to retain power: 1) Make new tech that is very convenient but has potential to become surveillance vector. -> e.g, Phone with voice recordings, fingerprint Face ID, location data, network of friends. Smart TV, sma…

> There is no convenience that would ever convince me to have an always on listening device in my home.

Many smartphones have this, and will respond to "Ok Google" or "Hey Siri". Do you view this differently?

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#208

Post by pcdoodle »

onli wrote: post #126
slig wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called "Telescreen" and will be soon available.

It's called laptop, smartphone and smart tv, is already available and we do know it's already watched and listened to.

^^^ Source Please.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#209

Post by adfgadfasa »

xenocyon wrote: post #155
eloff wrote: post #16

I hate these requests for government back doors into tech communication software in the name of "the children". Let the parents worry about and protect their own children. Let the government mind its own business and stay out of ours.

As a parent, I reject this disingenuous pretense of concern for "the children". Folks are eager to invoke children to justify the surveillance state while conveniently forgetting the plight of children when it comes to concentration camps, poverty, and climate change. Secondly, children themselves have frequently been the victim of surveillance abuses and there is no reason to suspect that this instance will be any d…

Yeah considering the profoundly terrible conditions in the concentration camps this administration is holding children in, this seems a littlllleeee disingenuous.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#210

Post by onli »

jachee wrote: post #194
onli wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called laptop, smartphone and smart tv, is already available and we do know it's already watched and listened to.

Got any sources to cite for that watching and listening? Specifically Apple-related and North American examples?

It's hard to take that question serious. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)#E... explains why. Snowden leaked it years ago now. There is even a scene about that in the movie.

And Apple-related? North American? That's not relevant at all.

Post reply on HN