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Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

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Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they just made that number up.

more or less agreed, would def like to see how they ended up at 99%

Right. Assuming that they know that they're missing 1% of cases insinuates that they know enough about the 1% they're missing to quantify it.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#52

Sometimes I can understand the willingness to reduce the privacy of self and others in order to ensure that the law is able to prosecute those involved in heinous crimes. Our current political environment though involved a president openly calling on foreign governments to investigate his political opponents. What is to stop them from going after the private communications of those same opponents in the name of targe…

Ultimately there's nothing stopping criminals from using any number of E2E alternatives. Short of banning open source software, there's nothing the US government can really do here. Forcing Facebook to leave in a government backdoor will just send all the criminals to other services or even to roll their own.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#53
post #50

Detecting child abuse pictures is not incompatible with end-to-end encryption if the detection is done locally. Facebook (or other messenger app owners) could train a good classification model to detect child abuse pictures on large servers and provide the model to smartphones locally. Before sending pictures, the app would run the trained model (which is cheap computationally). If if detects pictures of abuse with a…

don't trust the client. How easy it would be for a motivated community to create a binary patch that skipped the local abuse checks?

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> captures 99% of child exploitation and terrorism-related content Credit where it's due, good on them building such effective systems to catch this content.

But they just made that number up.

Is it made up? I thought they meant "Of content identified on Facebook, 99% was identified by Facebook's own systems". Not that Facebook captures 99% of terrorists. Just that it does the bulk of capturing terrorists _on Facebook_.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#55

> We are writing to request that Facebook does not proceed with its plan to implement end-to-end encryption across its messaging services without ensuring that there is no reduction to user safety. Oh, so you’re asking for more end-to-end encryption? > While the letter acknowledges that Facebook, which owns Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, and Instagram, captures 99% of child exploitation and terrorism-related content t…

How can they know they capture 99% of such content given that WhatsApp is (if I understand correctly) encrypted fully end to end such that Facebook cannot access the messages passing through it?

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#56
post #40
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True E2E Encryption would also mean the platform(FB, Telegram, Google, Apple, etc.) also can not read the messages and thus the law enforcement can not force them to reveal what a user said because it would be impossible for them to know.

You are partially right but the issue is that E2E isn't even enough. E2E doesn't matter if they force a patched binary that also sends the data to the government. This is EXACTLY what the Australian laws saws they must do, oh and it is a gag order so they can't disclose it. I'm starting to wonder if this is a smokescreen. Eventually give in to E2E because you know you have got app store signing keys for the apps so y…

> You are partially right but the issue is that E2E isn't even enough. E2E doesn't matter if they force a patched binary that also sends the data to the government. This is EXACTLY what the Australian laws saws they must do, oh and it is a gag order so they can't disclose it.

> I'm starting to wonder if this is a smokescreen. Eventually give in to E2E because you know you have got app store signing keys for the apps so you can upload a patched one with backdoors.

Is there no way to prevent auto-updating of apps? If the app blocks access barring upgrade it may be suspicious. Though I guess the upgrade would probably be veiled in new features.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#57

> We are writing to request that Facebook does not proceed with its plan to implement end-to-end encryption across its messaging services without ensuring that there is no reduction to user safety. Oh, so you’re asking for more end-to-end encryption? > While the letter acknowledges that Facebook, which owns Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, and Instagram, captures 99% of child exploitation and terrorism-related content t…

> captures 99% of child exploitation and terrorism-related content Credit where it's due, good on them building such effective systems to catch this content.

apropos: https://i.imgur.com/djxjXbj.jpg

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#58
post #40
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True E2E Encryption would also mean the platform(FB, Telegram, Google, Apple, etc.) also can not read the messages and thus the law enforcement can not force them to reveal what a user said because it would be impossible for them to know.

You are partially right but the issue is that E2E isn't even enough. E2E doesn't matter if they force a patched binary that also sends the data to the government. This is EXACTLY what the Australian laws saws they must do, oh and it is a gag order so they can't disclose it. I'm starting to wonder if this is a smokescreen. Eventually give in to E2E because you know you have got app store signing keys for the apps so y…

This is a good point. E2E is better then not, but you still can't trust FB. Anybody who seriously cares about privacy will still use something open source.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#59
For those of you opposed to this request from the government, what do you think the negative consequences are for end to end encryption? Do you think there are no negative consequences or are they just negligible? Just try and imagine what the cost might be, how broad the impact might be and who and how many would bear the brunt of those costs.

Nobody really cares about your personal Facebook messages to your friends and family. You're not that important. But still considering what is being offered in payment for this privacy, it's still worth it to you?

I'm not so sure it is, personally.

Re: Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for end-to-end encryption

#60

Sometimes I can understand the willingness to reduce the privacy of self and others in order to ensure that the law is able to prosecute those involved in heinous crimes. Our current political environment though involved a president openly calling on foreign governments to investigate his political opponents. What is to stop them from going after the private communications of those same opponents in the name of targe…

"president openly calling on foreign governments to investigate his political opponents."

We're just going to completely ignore the last administration spying on their political opponents?

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