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A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

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Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#111

Post by tom_mellior »

geggam wrote: post #87
ohlookabird wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious, and also don't mean any offense by it: why is this surprising or even silly to you? Has it been your believe so far that a major driver behind avoiding meet is the taste or texture?

The thing I find silly is if you dont like eating animals or causing their death why eat fake animal meat ? It's like abstaining from sex by using a sex doll in my mind.

> The thing I find silly is if you dont like eating animals or causing their death why eat fake animal meat ?

Because... fake animal meat does not cause animals to die?

People somehow get really hung up on this fake meat thing, and at the same time often accuse vegetarians or vegans of policing their food choices. Why don't you just accept that if dozens of people in this thread post that they like the taste or texture of the "fake" product, then that means that they like the taste or texture of the "fake" product, and there is nothing more for you to understand?

(Not a vegetarian myself, but I tend to only eat meat at special occasions. I like the taste and texture of some meat replacement products. Many others are atrociously bad.)

> It's like abstaining from sex by using a sex doll in my mind.

That comparison is only valid if having sex causes the death of your partner. And if you are someone who tends to murder their sex partners, then yes, it would be very very good if you switched to sex dolls.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#112

Post by athriren »

gridlockd wrote: post #77
superpermutat0r wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the taste of meat, I like the taste of eggs, texture of yogurt, I like the taste of practically all foods. I do not like the fact that cow, chicken, pig, dog, have to die for my tastebuds to feel nice. Given that I like the tastes I like and do not want to give them up, I'll rather be calm and eat something that tastes like meat but there's no death of an animal. That's it. Could I live without veggie sausages…

> I do not like the fact that cow, chicken, pig, dog, have to die for my tastebuds to feel nice. Not only do they have to die, they also have to live . If everyone went vegan, those animals would never have existed. If the standards of living for the average farm animal were really good, would that be worse than them having never existed?

I can't answer for everyone, but in the interest of continuing conversation my answer to your question in the last sentence would yes.

It would be better for an animal to have never existed than to have its entire existence be measured by the utility of killing it and butchering it for people to eat.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#113

Post by belorn »

_Microft wrote: post #8

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notic…

In my experience, and in particular with conference food, vegetarian dishes has its own food culture and tastes. To be specific they usually do not include any pepper, garlic, chili, or herbs like parsley, sage, rosemary, thyme and cumin. Salt and umami is also often missing. Instead the cooks tries to create tastes through using different grains, seeds, fruits, salads and vegetables. Food without meat does not have to follow that culture but it is a bit like telling thai cooks to not use fish sauce, cilantro and chilies.

For me if food without meat want to raise a larger audience it must first be separated from the vegetarian food culture, because not everyone like the taste of that food culture.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#114

Post by seanwilson »

geggam wrote: post #106
seanwilson wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not only do they have to die, they also have to live. If everyone went vegan, those animals would never have existed. In the same way, you could justify birthing a human into slavery, birthing a dog for dog fighting, birthing a bull for bullfighting etc. - it's not a good reason. There's animals related to farm bred cows, pigs and chickens in the wild as well. You could use the land that's used for animal agricultu…

I would argue that you haven't ever really spent much time in nature. Example : Wolves and coyotes thrive on killing babies, nature is much more harsh than any farm I have seen.

Wolves and coyotes don't have supermarkets. We have a choice to not act like wild animals.

Animals also murder their own kind, can be cannibalistic and worse. Is it okay to do those things too because they happen in nature?

We shouldn't (and don't) based our morals and behaviours on wild animals.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#115

Post by benj111 »

jedimastert wrote: post #91
_Microft wrote: post #8

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notic…

POV: Omnivore with a (previously) vegetarian spouse. We generally ate veg @ home One of my biggest issues with modern veg diets is all of the veg food trying to masquerade as other food. Soy bacon does not taste like, or taste as good as, real bacon. Tofu and Boca burgers do not taste like actual meat. But tofu and the like can taste amazing on its own merit . It's an ingredient with it's own flavors and textures, so…

Agreed. The vegetarian things I eat, taste nice, and just happen to be vegetarian, they're not meat replaced with Quorn.

Additionally, one thing I don't understand, up until recently animal rights seems to have been the main driver behind vegetarianism. If you're morally against eating pig, why would you want to eat something that pretends to be pig?

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#116

Post by mr_overalls »

puranjay wrote: post #104
_Microft wrote: post #8

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notic…

Western cuisine seems to fundamentally misunderstand vegetables. Methinks it was partly the unavailability of spices, and partly the easy availability of meat. Meat is like a cheat code when you're cooking. A good cut of meat needs a little more than some salt and fat to taste good. With vegetables, you're forced to be more inventive. Take okra for instance. In India, its a favorite vegetable. Saute it with some Indi…

> Methinks it was partly the unavailability of spices.

I see that you are unacquainted with Southern food, specifically Cajun cuisine. I cannot recommend a culinary expedition to New Orleans highly enough. It will change your life!

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#117

Post by cameronbrown »

jedimastert wrote: post #91
_Microft wrote: post #8

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notic…

POV: Omnivore with a (previously) vegetarian spouse. We generally ate veg @ home One of my biggest issues with modern veg diets is all of the veg food trying to masquerade as other food. Soy bacon does not taste like, or taste as good as, real bacon. Tofu and Boca burgers do not taste like actual meat. But tofu and the like can taste amazing on its own merit . It's an ingredient with it's own flavors and textures, so…

> But tofu and the like can taste amazing on its own merit.

Pretty much most people I know (read: non-veggies) agree with you on this point. The harder they try and imitate meat the worse the quality of food tends to be imo.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#118

Post by sparrc »

geggam wrote: post #102
seanwilson wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you want to eat vegetables that are fake meat or made to taste like meat ? Why do people on diets eat low calorie desserts? The same way people go on diets because they want to lose weight but not to avoid the taste of food they like, people go vegan because of environmental and animal cruelty reasons but not to avoid the taste of food they like.

Animal cruelty is an issue without eating meat being involved. That said, when you raise a cow and you know you are going to eat it most folks aren't so cruel. Kosher meats ( i have heard this ) are harvested with ethical methods. I think many people are too far removed from the process of how food is created.

is killing not cruel? is it practical for everyone to raise their own cow?

kosher is no more ethical: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp8B4vSd6h0

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#119

Post by seanwilson »

geggam wrote: post #102
seanwilson wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you want to eat vegetables that are fake meat or made to taste like meat ? Why do people on diets eat low calorie desserts? The same way people go on diets because they want to lose weight but not to avoid the taste of food they like, people go vegan because of environmental and animal cruelty reasons but not to avoid the taste of food they like.

Animal cruelty is an issue without eating meat being involved. That said, when you raise a cow and you know you are going to eat it most folks aren't so cruel. Kosher meats ( i have heard this ) are harvested with ethical methods. I think many people are too far removed from the process of how food is created.

How do you ethically and without cruelty keep then kill an animal that doesn't want to die usually 20% or less into its natural life span?

> That said, when you raise a cow and you know you are going to eat it most folks aren't so cruel. Kosher meats ( i have heard this ) are harvested with ethical methods.

https://kb.rspca.org.au/knowledge-base/what-is-kosher-slaugh...

> For meat to be Kosher, the animal must be slaughtered in a particular way, so the Rabbi in a Kosher abattoir is a specially trained religious slaughterer. A very sharp knife is used to cut the oesophagus, the trachea, carotid arteries and jugular veins in one smooth action. There must be no pause during the action nor excessive pressure on the blade. Failure to meet these specific requirements renders the animal unkosher.

If that's correct, how is that not cruel? Animals don't want to die.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#120

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

mr_overalls wrote: post #116
puranjay wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western cuisine seems to fundamentally misunderstand vegetables. Methinks it was partly the unavailability of spices, and partly the easy availability of meat. Meat is like a cheat code when you're cooking. A good cut of meat needs a little more than some salt and fat to taste good. With vegetables, you're forced to be more inventive. Take okra for instance. In India, its a favorite vegetable. Saute it with some Indi…

> Methinks it was partly the unavailability of spices. I see that you are unacquainted with Southern food, specifically Cajun cuisine. I cannot recommend a culinary expedition to New Orleans highly enough. It will change your life!

Stories I've heard of southern cuisine describe meat dishes with a side of more meat.
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