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A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

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Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#101

Post by seanwilson »

gridlockd wrote: post #77
superpermutat0r wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the taste of meat, I like the taste of eggs, texture of yogurt, I like the taste of practically all foods. I do not like the fact that cow, chicken, pig, dog, have to die for my tastebuds to feel nice. Given that I like the tastes I like and do not want to give them up, I'll rather be calm and eat something that tastes like meat but there's no death of an animal. That's it. Could I live without veggie sausages…

> I do not like the fact that cow, chicken, pig, dog, have to die for my tastebuds to feel nice. Not only do they have to die, they also have to live . If everyone went vegan, those animals would never have existed. If the standards of living for the average farm animal were really good, would that be worse than them having never existed?

> Not only do they have to die, they also have to live. If everyone went vegan, those animals would never have existed.

In the same way, you could justify birthing a human into slavery, birthing a dog for dog fighting, birthing a bull for bullfighting etc. - it's not a good reason.

There's animals related to farm bred cows, pigs and chickens in the wild as well. You could use the land that's used for animal agriculture to let wild animals thrive, instead of birthing animals into a miserable life.

> If the standards of living for the average farm animal were really good, would that be worse than them having never existed?

I don't think there's enough land for this to ever be feasible and feed everyone that wants to eat meat.

You should also consider that farm animals are killed within around 20% or less into their natural lifespan so it's not like you'd be giving them much time to experience a great life. Also, for economical reasons, you'd probably still have to kill e.g. males from egg laying hens within a day or two, and male dairy calves within weeks.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#102

Post by geggam »

seanwilson wrote: post #88
geggam wrote: post #35

Would someone who is a vegan answer this question I have and I mean no offense by it. Why do you want to eat vegetables that are fake meat or made to taste like meat ? It seems silly to me.

> Why do you want to eat vegetables that are fake meat or made to taste like meat ? Why do people on diets eat low calorie desserts? The same way people go on diets because they want to lose weight but not to avoid the taste of food they like, people go vegan because of environmental and animal cruelty reasons but not to avoid the taste of food they like.

Animal cruelty is an issue without eating meat being involved.

That said, when you raise a cow and you know you are going to eat it most folks aren't so cruel. Kosher meats ( i have heard this ) are harvested with ethical methods.

I think many people are too far removed from the process of how food is created.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#103

Post by davexunit »

geggam wrote: post #35

Would someone who is a vegan answer this question I have and I mean no offense by it. Why do you want to eat vegetables that are fake meat or made to taste like meat ? It seems silly to me.

Like a lot of Americans, I grew up eating lots of hamburgers and hot dogs, and while I think vegetables are delicious in their own right and don't need to imitate meat, sometimes I just want a burger. And sometimes I just want a junk food fast food burger. That new impossible whopper at Burger King is really good. I don't think I'm alone in occasionally wanting the familiarity of the food you used to eat. Beyond Meat/Impossible satisfy that.

(I'm vegetarian, not vegan, fwiw)

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#104

Post by puranjay »

_Microft wrote: post #8

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notic…

Western cuisine seems to fundamentally misunderstand vegetables. Methinks it was partly the unavailability of spices, and partly the easy availability of meat.

Meat is like a cheat code when you're cooking. A good cut of meat needs a little more than some salt and fat to taste good.

With vegetables, you're forced to be more inventive.

Take okra for instance. In India, its a favorite vegetable. Saute it with some Indian spices and it becomes a crunchy, flavorful dish.

Whenever I've seen okra in western menus, it is usually boiled which turns it into a gooey, sticky mess.

I love eating meat but I would be perfectly happy sticking to vegetarian-only food as long as I'm living in India

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#106

Post by geggam »

seanwilson wrote: post #101
gridlockd wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not like the fact that cow, chicken, pig, dog, have to die for my tastebuds to feel nice. Not only do they have to die, they also have to live . If everyone went vegan, those animals would never have existed. If the standards of living for the average farm animal were really good, would that be worse than them having never existed?

> Not only do they have to die, they also have to live. If everyone went vegan, those animals would never have existed. In the same way, you could justify birthing a human into slavery, birthing a dog for dog fighting, birthing a bull for bullfighting etc. - it's not a good reason. There's animals related to farm bred cows, pigs and chickens in the wild as well. You could use the land that's used for animal agricultu…

I would argue that you haven't ever really spent much time in nature.

Example : Wolves and coyotes thrive on killing babies, nature is much more harsh than any farm I have seen.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#107

Post by andrewfromx »

mikekij wrote: post #95
andrewfromx wrote: post #64

i really think the way to getting millions to change their meat eating ways is one animal at a time. Don't tell a typical meat eater give up all meat. Tell them give up cows only. Then pigs. Then maybe stop there for a while. Exist on chicken and seafood and that would change the world. Just place cows and pigs in same category as dogs and cats and all of a sudden, wow, huge win for everyone.

This extends to individual meals too. Lots of meat eaters feel some desire to be vegetarian, but have a particular dish or two they “can’t live without.” The environmental and health impacts of even avoiding meat in 50% of meals would be enormous. There’s no gold star for being a “perfect” vegetarian. Just do what you can.

i've been doing no cows and pigs since 2015 and the hardest part is the social aspect of going out with friends and someone announcing to the group, OH HEY THIS PERSON OVER HERE DOES NOT EAT 100% OF EVERYTHING. And all of a sudden you are the lame one that isn't "open to trying new things" or "fun and spontaneous" and will just pop anything from any dish into your mouth and say, oh wow, yum. And yet, the same people would freak out if cat or dog was on menu.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#108

Post by seanwilson »

Not sure how good the study is but I wouldn't find it surprising.

I can understand how people find it hard to stay vegetarian when e.g. the only vegetarian main on a restaurant menu is risotto (this happens comically often!).

Meat eaters tend to say "what would you even eat?!" because they're used to seeing menus with 90% meat options.

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#109

Post by tom_mellior »

4ad wrote: post #51
YinglingLight wrote: post #16

The study is on college kids.

You are downvoted for no reason. Not only that college kids are not representative for the entire population, but most importantly college kids tend not to have money. The article says: > variables that influenced dining choices included the relative prices of vegetarian and non-vegetarian options

> most importantly college kids tend not to have money

But if that's a very important factor and vegetarian was cheapest, anyone strapped for cash would always have chosen the vegetarian option even before this experiment, so nothing would change.

Also, from the actual abstract (https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/09/24/1907207116): "Linking sales data to participants’ previous meal purchases revealed that the largest effects were found in the quartile of diners with the lowest prior levels of vegetarian meal selection."

Re: A rise in vegetarian options leads customers to embrace meat-free meals

#110

Post by jamil7 »

puranjay wrote: post #104
_Microft wrote: post #8

The dish mentioned sounds far better than what is usually served as vegetarian food at canteens and restaurants. Quite often they offer just a compilation of side-dishes to have something vegetarian on their menu. (Dumblings with red cabbage and - wait for it - gravy from roasting meat is a widespread menu offer for vegetarians in southern Germany. Not sure if it counts as vegetarian option though). Once people notic…

Western cuisine seems to fundamentally misunderstand vegetables. Methinks it was partly the unavailability of spices, and partly the easy availability of meat. Meat is like a cheat code when you're cooking. A good cut of meat needs a little more than some salt and fat to taste good. With vegetables, you're forced to be more inventive. Take okra for instance. In India, its a favorite vegetable. Saute it with some Indi…

I think it's also a matter of Northern European climates, meat and dairy was available for most of the year while vegetables other than potatoes and onions where really only in spring and summer.
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