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United Kingdom Budget Visualization

uk.wikibudgets.org

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121–130 of 162 posts

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#121

Post by catacombs »

hardlianotion wrote: post #9

That is a great idea. Understanding government expenditure on some level should be a fundamental part of a citizen's participation. I don't yet fully understand how to read it. It's not really clear to me what the difference in income and expenditure is - the impression the diagram gives me is other that income is balanced by expenditure, or that there is a budget surplus maybe. I think I recall that there is a budge…

> I don't yet fully understand how to read it.

A graphic that's hard to read is a failed graphic.

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#123

Post by ackshually »

gutnor wrote: post #46
ackshually wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't vote leave because of the money. I voted leave because I was dubious about the control the elected and unelected officials and secretaries in brussels had over British politics, and the rats nest of well paid jobs with crazy benefits waiting for british politicians in brussels when they retire from british politics, so long as they play nice with the EU and go along with the will of the government in Brussel…

That's actually a good point and well said ... 3 years ago. However, today you cannot make that argument with a straight face when Boris is a PM with a very weak democratic mandate, actively undermining the democratically elected Parliament, doubling down on the lies made by the campaigns, pushing for highly damaging (according to the Government own assessment) economic measure. From the Cambridge Analytica scandal w…

Yes, the current government does not have a majority, but this was due to internal strife caused by the leaver/remainer dynamic within the halls of power.

Fair enough, the UK government is rotten to the core and the lot deserve to be thrown out and strung up. But they won't be, because the UK population is frustrated, but misinformed and distracted.

The problem with your argument is this; Brexit was not a vote on the corrupt local government, it was a vote on the corrupt EU government, and changing the focus on this matter doesn't change that.

The fact that a 80% remain parliment is supposed to represent a 52% leave population is ridiculous.

The fact that the supreme court were permitted to make walking away from the negotiation table illegal, thereby making it not a negotiation but a discussion of the UK's servitude from this point onward, is a disgrace.

If you cannot walk away from a negotiation, you're not negotiating. Your discussing the terms of your slavery. The task of getting the UK out of the EU in any kind of positive way is now utterly impossible.

So I'm afraid this is a remainer vs a leaver problem, because the majority of the population ("leavers") are not represented by the majority of the government ("remainers").

That is the problem with British democracy, not the steps taken by PM Johnson to put in to affect a desicion made by the people in the referendum!

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#124

Post by iikoolpp »

deadbunny wrote: post #79
monadgonad wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Understanding government expenditure on some level should be a fundamental part of a citizen's participation. HMRC sends people this information annually - a breakdown of what their amount of tax paid was spent on.

That doesn't mean it's understandable to the average person. SpaceX could send me detailed schematics of every rocket that launches and I wouldn't have a clue how it works.

It's literally a pie chart and a table.

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#125

Post by ackshually »

quietbritishjim wrote: post #44
ackshually wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't vote leave because of the money. I voted leave because I was dubious about the control the elected and unelected officials and secretaries in brussels had over British politics, and the rats nest of well paid jobs with crazy benefits waiting for british politicians in brussels when they retire from british politics, so long as they play nice with the EU and go along with the will of the government in Brussel…

I know Hacker News policy is to not talk about votes, but can we please be more vote friendly to this user, especially as they're new? I find it's very rare to see a Brexiteer in my usual bubble so I'm grateful to hear the opposing view. (At time of making this comment, the parent is greyed out from down votes.)

Appreciate the support, but I usually lurk specifically because I know my opinions aren't welcome. Despite this shortcoming I enjoy HN and happily read the lower vote comments first in every thread, haha.

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#126

Post by iikoolpp »

kmm wrote: post #73
pjc50 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, anyone who's still a Brexiteer has engaged in some extremely selective listening. There's no point in having a discussion with someone who won't seriously address the entirely likely problems of Brexit, both as a concept and how it is currently being done. (I mean, Brexiting to the status of Norway might at least have been feasible, but that's now a long way in the rear view mirror.)

I'm personally very worried about sentiments like the one you express. The smug complete dismissal of another's viewpoints, complete refusal to even just listen, generalizing over all people with the same ideas... Opinions like being in favor of Brexit are not in any sense as fundamentally objectionable and unacceptable even for disucussion as, for example, nazism or racism. Political divisiveness is a significant is…

This is the same kind of shit as the faux neutrality news reporters are held to on scientific topics. But, suddenly, because it's political we should then listen to their shit viewpoints?

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#128

Post by ackshually »

drcongo wrote: post #78
ackshually wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't vote leave because of the money. I voted leave because I was dubious about the control the elected and unelected officials and secretaries in brussels had over British politics, and the rats nest of well paid jobs with crazy benefits waiting for british politicians in brussels when they retire from british politics, so long as they play nice with the EU and go along with the will of the government in Brussel…

UK MEPs have only ever voted _against_ 2% of laws introduced by the EU (laws about human rights and closing corporate tax loopholes), they have voted _with_ 95% of the time. There's a reason for this, they took part in the shaping of those laws. Now we have no way of shaping laws throughout the continent we're a part of. We've thrown it all out the window because someone told you that the EU is trying to stop us from…

First paragraph: We can choose to take on and add similar laws to our own government from outside the EU, including HR and tax loopholes, without having to worry about getting suckered in to things like the EU army (the latter of which is the reason why members of the armed forces overwhelmingly voted to leave.)

Second paragraph: Bit disegenuous to throw a "you voted leave because XYZ" at me when I specifically posted my reason for voting leave in the post you're replying to...

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#129

Post by ackshually »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #101
ibeckermayer wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you recognize that this comment doesn’t expose anything contradictory in the OP? The British system can be far from ideal, and yet it still wouldn’t be better to overlay an even less accountable, more centralized government on top of it.

I think the point is proportional representation. For instance, as a Lib Dem or Green voter living in a constituency with a strong Labour or Tory majority, you are not represented in the UK parliament at all. Being able to influence EU decisions through the EU parliament, which uses a more proportional voting system, at least gives you some democratic representation and accountability. Besides, "overlay" is not quite…

Fair enough, maybe that's the wrong term to use, after all just after the leave vote UKIP got an eighth of the national vote and no seats in parliament, so from the right wing point of view that's a poor term to use as well.

Fair point regarding the house of lords, though I was under the impression they were more veto holders/policy checkers vs actual writers of law. Though I'm no expert.

Thanks for your replies.

Re: United Kingdom Budget Visualization

#130

Post by ackshually »

hardlianotion wrote: post #9

That is a great idea. Understanding government expenditure on some level should be a fundamental part of a citizen's participation. I don't yet fully understand how to read it. It's not really clear to me what the difference in income and expenditure is - the impression the diagram gives me is other that income is balanced by expenditure, or that there is a budget surplus maybe. I think I recall that there is a budge…

Agreed, this is a great resource, and the more of those "no data" end points that are filled in, the better.

Would be great to drill down and specifically see who gets paid what, for doing which jobs, how much money is going to which initiative, etc.

Would probably quite the undertaking, with the amount of beuraucracy in the British government.

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