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Samsung ends mobile phone production in China

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101–110 of 201 posts

Re: Samsung ends mobile phone production in China

#101

Note - Vietnam has an FTA with India (unlike China), and so this also helps it fight back against Chinese smartphone players that are currently dominating in India AND it also works as a bargaining chip with the Indian govt. for tax incentives. IIRC they moved their television assembly back to Vietnam in retaliation for some failed deal last year. Might be a good idea too, the Indian state is a moronic rent-seeking s…

India will have a "welfare state" as long as we have a large poor population and all people are not on the same pedestal.

Re: Samsung ends mobile phone production in China

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why more producers haven't made this move? If Vietnam is there as far as infrastructure goes and they have the skilled/unskilled labor why is this not a more popular move. Also when we say "make" I assume we mean "assembles". Somewhat anecdotally I recently purchased a laptop and tried to find one that wasn't made in China and it was nigh on impossible.

It takes time to move supply chains.

And crucially, it takes more time than imposing new tariffs.

Re: Samsung ends mobile phone production in China

#103
post #5

Samsung already makes most of their phones in Vietnam. Not a huge difference, other than the lack of tariffs. https://www.economist.com/asia/2018/04/12/why-samsung-of-sou...

I wonder why more producers haven't made this move? If Vietnam is there as far as infrastructure goes and they have the skilled/unskilled labor why is this not a more popular move. Also when we say "make" I assume we mean "assembles". Somewhat anecdotally I recently purchased a laptop and tried to find one that wasn't made in China and it was nigh on impossible.

[deleted]

Re: Samsung ends mobile phone production in China

#104
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because most major manufacturers are mainly Chinese now(Huawei/Xiaomi/Oppo), and China is the NO1 market, why leave China? Samsung had been irrelevant in China for some years now, like below 1% market share. It just can't compete US is by far the only market that Chinese phones haven't dominated, but that is for a reason. Buying an Android in US there has surprising limited choices, Samsung/OnePlus/Pixel in that Orde…

Right. The US only. Well, also Japan. Also, Korea. I guess also much of Europe too. Or Canada. But, yeah other than that. Which I guess is really just India and China. So I guess the reason is median/mean income??

To be fair India and China makes up almost 40% of the world population.

Re: Samsung ends mobile phone production in China

#105
post #5

Samsung already makes most of their phones in Vietnam. Not a huge difference, other than the lack of tariffs. https://www.economist.com/asia/2018/04/12/why-samsung-of-sou...

I wonder why more producers haven't made this move? If Vietnam is there as far as infrastructure goes and they have the skilled/unskilled labor why is this not a more popular move. Also when we say "make" I assume we mean "assembles". Somewhat anecdotally I recently purchased a laptop and tried to find one that wasn't made in China and it was nigh on impossible.

> Also when we say "make" I assume we mean "assembles".

Well, it's a bit more than that. While Samsung imports many parts and "assembles" all final products in Vietnam, there are also 200 suppliers and contractors who relocated and "make" their parts in Vietnam.

Vietnam in pre-Samsung era was largely known for low-tech textile export. There wasn't a lot of infrastructure to support Samsung's smartphone operation in Vietnam. Samsung not only had to work with the Vietnamese gov't to create the industrial infrastructure that didn't exist, but the company also had to convince suppliers/contractors to set up shops in Vietnam.

Samsung's products now accounts for about 1/3 of Vietnam's overall export.

Re: Samsung ends mobile phone production in China

#106
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have zero reservations about South Korea's workers' rights protections, workplace health and safety, and environmental regulations. Well, Samsung only just apologised last year to workers for some unusually high rates of cancer among workers at its (local) semiconductor and display factories[1]. It took ten years or more to go through the Korean courts. In general, Korea's industrial death/injury rates are very hi…

Interesting! It sounds like South Korean worker rights are a little below US/EU ones, but still far superior to the completely lacking ones in China/Vietnam/Cambodia/Myanmar? Or is that wrong?

Sounds about right, but I can't properly speak to US/EU ones, and definitely can't speak properly about worker rights in those other Asian/SE Asian countries. I think we'd probably all agree that EU ones are some of the best. I would guess that generally Korean worker rights are better than the ones in those Asian countries. (The growing foreign labour force in Korea, mostly for manual labour and factories, and mostly from SE Asia and China, might disagree, as they often fall into the same migrant labour trap that exists in other developed countries.)

Some things that I think are good about Korean labour law/rights:

-No at-will employment: employers must have a solid reason for firing somebody (misconduct, financial loss, crippling lack of company funds). In practice, this is often skirted through social pressure, i.e. employees encouraged openly to quit, or having their working lives turned into quiet hells until they quit to get away. If a person is fired they must be given either 30 days' notice or 30 days' salary.

-"Pension"/severance pay: all full-time workers accumulate a month's salary for each year worked at a company. Legally this must be paid out within 14 days after leaving a position. My own (Western) country has nothing like this, and I think it's especially good for the Korean context where a person might work for LG, Samsung, or Hyundai for twenty years, then be eased out right when their kids are starting university. Often, they can't find other whitecollar jobs. Every second or third cabbie I talk to in Seoul used to work for one of the big Korean firms. So the severance gives people a bit of a buffer if they randomly get fired or have to quit.

-Strong state-funded healthcare and social safety net.

Two less-good things:

-Koreans famously work some of the longest hours in the OECD, and it's usually overtime that people find it impossible, culturally, to say no to. The government legislated against it this year (all work beyond 8 hours per day and 40 hours per week to be defined as overtime, with time and a half paid for overtime and a maximum of 12 extra hours per week allowed) so hopefully things are going to slowly change there. In practice, people still seem to be working tons of overtime (for which they should be paid extra) without reporting it, but the law is still new.

-Minimum number of leave days per year is around 11-12 for the first year of employment and could be higher. In practice, corporate culture often limits peoples' freedoms around when they can take leave. Lack of separate sick days is common: people have to either use a leave day, or work sick.

Re: Samsung ends mobile phone production in China

#107
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because most major manufacturers are mainly Chinese now(Huawei/Xiaomi/Oppo), and China is the NO1 market, why leave China? Samsung had been irrelevant in China for some years now, like below 1% market share. It just can't compete US is by far the only market that Chinese phones haven't dominated, but that is for a reason. Buying an Android in US there has surprising limited choices, Samsung/OnePlus/Pixel in that Orde…

Right. The US only. Well, also Japan. Also, Korea. I guess also much of Europe too. Or Canada. But, yeah other than that. Which I guess is really just India and China. So I guess the reason is median/mean income??

https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share...

Adding Huawei+Xiaomi+Oppo+Vivo alone counts 45% of the world smart share already, by units, and the others consisting ZTE/Lenovo and other Chinese brands as well. Safe to say the Chinese phones are already 50% of all phones shipped.

Yes, it is pretty dominating. Had not for the Trump ban, Huawei would probably dethrone Samsung in EU as well, according to analysis in Feb

https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/14/18224614/huawei-chinese-p...

As a gadget enthusiasts, though overall the phone innovation is slowing down, but at least Chinese brands are the fewer left there to churn out marketable features, like those monstrous cameras and tricks to hide it. Apple and Samsung are just being lazy there, with incremental upgrade which command a premium

Re: Samsung ends mobile phone production in China

#108
post #5

Samsung already makes most of their phones in Vietnam. Not a huge difference, other than the lack of tariffs. https://www.economist.com/asia/2018/04/12/why-samsung-of-sou...

I wonder why more producers haven't made this move? If Vietnam is there as far as infrastructure goes and they have the skilled/unskilled labor why is this not a more popular move. Also when we say "make" I assume we mean "assembles". Somewhat anecdotally I recently purchased a laptop and tried to find one that wasn't made in China and it was nigh on impossible.

Assembling in China gets you credit with the Chinese government, which is useful to gain political protection and freer access to the Chinese market. But Samsung is getting squeezed out of the Chinese market, so that's not a big plus for them anymore.

Re: Samsung ends mobile phone production in China

#109

In addition to tariffs, they were effectively training their competitors in China. Manufacturing in China just accelerates the rate of IP theft.

That happens all the time. Made in Germany in the beginning was a mark for cheap counterfeit goods. Copying British products is how Germany’s industry got started.

American chemical industry got a significant push when they received German chemistry patents during WW1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Germany

Re: Samsung ends mobile phone production in China

#110
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be more push back against goods made in non-democratic countries like Vietnam, and not just against Made-in-China. My previous phone was a Samsung Galaxy S5 and I was surprised to find out that it was made in Korea. Manufacturing in Korea certainly didn't seem to harm Samsung's financial prospects back then, and the phone wasn't any more expensive than its Made-in-China competitors. I have zero reservati…

In my mind this thinking is no better than isolationist thinking of those countries. Bringing business to those countries is the best way to improve living conditions of the workers and expose them to the better world.

It's even better to bring business and good treatment of workers. Your argument is not wrong, but it's sometimes used to defend sweatshop practices.
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