Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says • Hacker News Board

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#261

Post by ClumsyPilot » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 1:01 AM UTC

undersuit wrote: post #231

rukittenme wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop raising awareness and start triaging. At a certain point, everyone is aware of the top line issues and you just need to prioritize public attention. You (obviously) can't do this on your own and, at a certain level, the environmental movement's focus on bogus, small-time, feel-good issues reveals its cynicism. BUT PLEASE, stop defending it. You're just empowering those looking for a reason to resent the movement…

>Stop raising awareness and start triaging. Like trying to start banning categories of plastic? Straws and shopping bags?

Using non recyclable plastic in a single use items should be a criminal offence

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#262

Post by callalex » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 1:02 AM UTC

easytiger wrote: post #133

intarga wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there something in particular necessary about animal protein, that it gets a distinct category from just protein in general? It also stands to reason that if that many people really are dependent on fish, it will be devastating to them when overfishing and pollution destroy fish stocks. All the more reason to reduce fishing and build alternatives now.

> Is there something in particular necessary about animal protein, that it gets a distinct category from just protein in general Pretty worrying that people don't know that the only real sources of essential acids critical to humans are from seafood, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) They aren't optional and the body sucks at synthesising them.

There are entire countries and cultures that survive without meat for centuries. I’d love to know how you decided sourcing those proteins from fish is “not optional”.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#263

Post by pembrook » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 1:07 AM UTC

spodek wrote: post #244

pembrook wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you are genuinely trying to help solve the problem. However I think your plan of action is misguided, and is making things worse. Your ideas only appeal to certain personality types in rich countries. They make an enemy out of everybody else. Your framing of the solution as "Humans need to change from growth to enjoying what we have" is wrong. This is diametrically opposed to human nature--you're literally…

Efficiency doesn't mean lowering total waste and often creates more. Reducing is strategic. Efficiency, such as bio-degradable straws and most newer technologies like you described, is tactical. I covered this in part in my podcast "episode 183: Reusing and recycling are tactical. Reducing is strategic": https://shows.pippa.io/leadership-and-the-environment/episod... . I'm sorry you think reduction is misguided. Your…

I believe reduction would certainly solve the problem. I just don't think it's possible to make happen (I elaborated on this further in the comment below).

Is it possible the reason humans in the past didn't consume as much, was simply because they lacked the technology to allow them to?

If you gave a human from 10,000 B.C. a private jet, while also telling him that jet is bad for the environment, that human would still be flying all over the globe in an instant.

I don't think humans were somehow more morally conscientious in the past. And I'm not sure we should be aiming to head back to those "glory days" of 20 year lifespans and terrible infant mortality rates.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#264

Post by BurningFrog » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 1:15 AM UTC

paulgerhardt wrote: post #121

I spend a day or two every year cleaning up a beach on a island off the coast of China. Its location relative to local sea currents makes it a natural garbage trap. It has been a radicalizing experience but maybe not in the way you would think. Anecdotally about a third of the trash I pick up is fishing related - some nets, some buoys, but mostly thousands of small plastic sardine sized fishing net floats. About a th…

> Straws are a very small part of that and a weird thing to fixate on relative to all the other one time use food waste we generate.

People always fixate on things they personally touch and see, over things that are out of sight even if they're thousand or million times bigger factors.

Thus all the frenzy around straws, shopping bags, coffee mugs etc.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#265

Post by ClumsyPilot » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 1:19 AM UTC

ibeckermayer wrote: post #54

MichaelApproved wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here you are creating a straw man argument. Reducing straws won’t “save the planet” on its own. We will improve the planet by doing multiple things. Reducing plastic use (less packaging, fewer straws, reusable shopping bags) all play a role in a much bigger effort.

Except that’s not improving the planet even a bit — chances are, every one of those straws being used in an American city would end up in a well run landfill and have minimal impact on the environment. It’s yet another example of knuckle dragging elites using state force to virtue signal. Meanwhile the real sources of the problem get ignored.

Most plastic ends up exported to recycling firms in china or Phillies, sometimes illegally, where its hand sorted, burned, or dumped.

It is usually contaminated with food and several different types of plastic are mixed together, including unrecycleable ones. Sorting them for recycling is usually uneconomical.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#266

Post by chillwaves » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 1:23 AM UTC

pembrook wrote: post #263

spodek wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Efficiency doesn't mean lowering total waste and often creates more. Reducing is strategic. Efficiency, such as bio-degradable straws and most newer technologies like you described, is tactical. I covered this in part in my podcast "episode 183: Reusing and recycling are tactical. Reducing is strategic": https://shows.pippa.io/leadership-and-the-environment/episod... . I'm sorry you think reduction is misguided. Your…

I believe reduction would certainly solve the problem. I just don't think it's possible to make happen (I elaborated on this further in the comment below). Is it possible the reason humans in the past didn't consume as much, was simply because they lacked the technology to allow them to? If you gave a human from 10,000 B.C. a private jet, while also telling him that jet is bad for the environment, that human would st…

How would reducing consumption affect infant mortality rates?

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#267

Post by undersuit » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 1:26 AM UTC

rukittenme wrote: post #248

undersuit wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Stop raising awareness and start triaging. Like trying to start banning categories of plastic? Straws and shopping bags?

Banning categories of plastic is an action . Choosing to expend political capital on banning certain plastics is an act of triage .

The political capital is being spent to stop the banning of plastics. Banning straws should really be a simple issue, but there are people opposed to the ban not for actual reasons, but because straws are first. They falsely argue that the ban will eliminate the straw, they use pleas of emotion feigning concern that the law won't have carve outs for legitimate use, they mock the minor efforts, snuggly knowing that all their distractions are making straws into a huge issue that now becomes almost poisonous to approach.

Just Ctrl+F for straws in this thread. Two top comments are taking shots at straws and once I post this reply, those two comments will have pushed the word straw to 97 counts.

Lastly just for fun, just a tally of the most common words on this page: 447 the

230 to

224 a

221 of

182 ago

174 and

172 hours

170 reply

170 in

158 is

150 that

103 i

98 plastic

91 it

81 you

79 on

78 for

76 are

67 not

67 be

62 we

60 this

57 but

55 they

55 straws

52 with

51 it's

51 if

51 have

50 all

49 or

43 use

39 was

39 more

39 as

38 so

38 at

37 about

36 don't

36 can

34 straw

34 people

34 from

32 them

32 fishing

The article is about merchant and fishing ships.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#268

Post by undersuit » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 1:33 AM UTC

afiori wrote: post #252

undersuit wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't need lipstick, lickstick is superfluous. I've never needed a straw while drinking and I facial hair, but I guess personal anecdotes are useless, and cleaning your face occasionally with a napkin(or a sleeve) is... forbidden? As for the elderly, if your health requires you to use a straw why are you relying on someone else to meet your needs? You should provide your own straws if drinking without a straw…

Agree, with enough dedication we can remove our reliance on anything. Coffee, tv, internet, phones, straws, bananas... Still doesn't mean it is a good idea or that it will solve anything. More in specific, we can remove straws from our life (you can also claim that all the noise about it raised public awareness), but when Starbucks solution is to use even more plastic in their lids, McDonald's solution are paper stra…

Single use lids are next.

We're destroying the environment because we can't be assed to take a break to have a drink.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#269

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 1:34 AM UTC

walshemj wrote: post #154

rantwasp wrote: post #26

This is known. The number I have heard floated around is 45%. So, commercial fishing nets are a big problem when it comes to plastic in the oceans. And here we are "saving the planet", by reducing the plastic straw consumption: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/18/anti-straw-mo... https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-06-07/plasti... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-b...…

The cynic in me might think that corporates getting behind "pious" things like banning plastic drink straws allows them to avoid other more costly changes they should make. Also banning straws does impact disabled people who as usual are often ignored.

[deleted]

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#270

Post by chillwaves » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 1:36 AM UTC

zamfi wrote: post #176

jajag wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, what counts as the "left" in the US and most European countries promoted globalization - the unreconstituted hard left, sure, not so much. I agree with you that this is a consumption problem, but globalization is what has driven consumption for the past 30 years.

What? It’s the right in almost every country that has promoted globalization. Labor parties around the world, and the democrats in the US up until Bill Clinton, were staunchly opposed.

> democrats in the US up until Bill Clinton, were staunchly opposed.

That's a hell of a caveat.