Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters • Hacker News Board

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#161

Post by manigandham » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 8:47 PM UTC

mikepurvis wrote: post #102

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Subways are one of the most effective inner-city travel systems available. I'd consider that a train system.

I'm always reminded of this when I visit Toronto— the last time I was there, my partner and I were going to see a small concert in the west end, and I groaned as Google Maps told me it would be a 40 minute trip by TTC, including the walk at both ends. Usually we would have taken the subway, but for whatever reason I was feeling lazy this time so we drove. It was almost a half-hour trip across downtown through the tai…

If you remove the parking situation from large-scale events, then the travel time is the same if not faster with the car, while providing more freedom and comfort. That's why many people choose it.

Unless you within walking distance of a station, you're going to get in a car anyway and at that point it's usually faster and cheap to drive. That's the fundamental calculus that prevents large-scale train construction in CA cities.

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#162

Post by legulere » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 8:49 PM UTC

hanniabu wrote: post #92

colordrops wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's soft. I have old Tupperware right here in my kitchen that has frayed surfaces and little bits and pieces must get into food.

Just think about the amount of plastic in foods from plastic cutting boards or using metal utensils on non-stick coated bans (with whatever kind of crazy chemicals are in there).

Non-Stick coating is pretty inert around room temperature, the real problem with them is if you heat them up too much which happens easily. They start to release all kinds of highly toxic gasses.

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#163

Post by rconti » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 8:53 PM UTC

Tangentially related; I can't fathom why the US insists on stop signs and traffic lights everywhere. A neighborhood I used to drive through on my way to work had 4 way stops sprouting up constantly.

The massive waste of resources involved in hauling 2 tons of steel and glass down from speed to 0, for _absolutely no reason 99% of the time_, accelerating it back up to speed again, just to do the same, over and over, boggles the mind. The noise pollution, the air pollution, the "trash" byproducts in the form of brake dust and tire dust. Why on earth would you voluntarily do this to your neighborhood? It doesn't stop speeding; it's a crappy form of traffic control, and it makes every traffic-related measure of living near it worse. Add to all that the time wasted. I feel the same way about traffic lights, particularly the over-proliferation of red arrows everywhere, telling us that we can't judge for ourselves when it's safe to go, and instead, we have to create gridlock and extensive waits for minimal gain.

Most of these problems could be solved by keeping traffic at a moderate, consistent level through the use of roundabouts, rather than the waste of constant stop-and-go.

When I rule the world, there will be a ban on 4-way stops, red arrows, and parking lots without walkways. I don't even have kids, and I find it infuriating that parking lots force us to walk behind rows and rows of parked cars, hoping that we don't get run over by someone backing out of a space in one of the ever-increasingly-difficult-to-see-out-of cars we're bringing to market in the name of 'safety'.

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#164

Post by hanniabu » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 9:06 PM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #133

hanniabu wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there's a point where the leaching greatly diminishes after so long (b/c everything from the surface has leached). For instance, I'd like to know if my hard-plastic Camelbak water container is now basically safe considering I've had it for about 4 years and refill it about 2/3 times a day, or if it's leaching at essentially the same rate as when it was new.

Or perhaps it leeches at a higher rate as the plastic physically and chemically degrades. Would be worth looking into.

Yes, indeed an interesting question

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#165

Post by ip26 » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 9:07 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #64

Interesting, considering just a few decades ago bundling old tires and sinking them into the ocean was considered an environmentally-friendly disposal method. It was believed that the tires would create reefs, encouraging sea life, and at the same time take care of on ongoing tire disposal problem that occasionally led to catastrophic fires. I wonder what other modern "environmentally friendly" things we're doing now…

Well, if you pay attention, it sounds like we're discovering plastic recycling falls into that category.

It even fits the part where we really wanted to believe it, so it wasn't hard to convince ourselves.

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#166

Post by ip26 » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 9:10 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #61

bpodgursky wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3222987/ > Most Plastic Products Release Estrogenic Chemicals: A Potential Health Problem That Can Be Solved > Results: Almost all commercially available plastic products we sampled—independent of the type of resin, product, or retail source—leached chemicals having reliably detectable EA, including those advertised as BPA free. In some cases, BPA-free products released ch…

I was just floored when the BPA problems arose and all these people I knew were trading in one plastic bottle for a different one. I'm switching to glass and stainless and everyone else is buying more plastic . Just... don't understand why we learn so slow.

I feel the same way, especially about flame retardants.

   1: discover they are poison
   2: invent a new one
   3: ten years pass
   4: GOTO 1

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#167

Post by dsfyu404ed » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 9:12 PM UTC

dajohnson89 wrote: post #36

likpok wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ford was shipping cars with asbestos brakes in 1993. Asbestos brakes are still readily available on the aftermarket. Brake pads since 2015 sold in California and Washington must have less than 0.1% asbestos by weight (it's unclear to me if that's asbestos alone, or asbestos and other heavy metals like cadmium or mercury). Since the ban was put into place in 2015, you can reasonably infer a) that there were brake pads…

the subway brakes in washington dc are abestos brakes. you can smell them quite strongly.

Considering the smell from brakes in subways and freight rail yards is the same as burned brakes and clutches on modern vehicles (which do not use asbestos) I am going to need a citation for that.

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#168

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 9:12 PM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #87

dragonwriter wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would be if the negative externalities of autos were priced in; trains aren't viable in America because autos are subsidized via substantial non-internalized negative externalities.

That is not why trains are not viable in America. Trains are far more heavily subsidized than autos, for example, on a per-passenger mile basis. Studies that account for the full bore of taxes which apply to personal vehicles (sales tax, excise tax, gas tax, registration fees) show that cars provide significant net income to government far exceeding infrastructure outlays. I think that trains being less fuel efficien…

> Studies that account for the full bore of taxes which apply to personal vehicles (sales tax, excise tax, gas tax, registration fees) show that cars provide significant net income to government far exceeding infrastructure outlays.

I'm not talking infrastructure externalities, I'm talking about environmental externalities, especially (but not exclusively) tailpipe emissions.

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#169

Post by seph-reed » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 9:13 PM UTC

labawi wrote: post #157

whyenot wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bikes have tires too

and shoes are made of plastics as well Bicycle tires are made of and release much less rubber than cars.

Funny enough, it might actually be kind of nice to work towards a world where being barefoot is okay.

Would require a lot cleaner cities. Clean bare feet could become a sign of affluence: "I'm so rich, I only walk where it's clean."

Re: Car tires biggest likely source of microplastics in California coastal waters

#170

Post by mikepurvis » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 9:18 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #161

mikepurvis wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always reminded of this when I visit Toronto— the last time I was there, my partner and I were going to see a small concert in the west end, and I groaned as Google Maps told me it would be a 40 minute trip by TTC, including the walk at both ends. Usually we would have taken the subway, but for whatever reason I was feeling lazy this time so we drove. It was almost a half-hour trip across downtown through the tai…

If you remove the parking situation from large-scale events, then the travel time is the same if not faster with the car, while providing more freedom and comfort. That's why many people choose it. Unless you within walking distance of a station, you're going to get in a car anyway and at that point it's usually faster and cheap to drive. That's the fundamental calculus that prevents large-scale train construction in…

But changing the parking situation changes everything. The concert we went to was an The Great Hall on Queen St W. There were only a few hundred people at the event, but nowhere around there were there a few hundred parking spots— the whole neighbourhood is packed with restaurants, clubs, and other destinations. The character of it would be completely changed by setting all that stuff up to be accessed primarily by personal vehicle.

The reality is, most of the people around us attending the event got there by some combination of transit, walking, and uber/cabs. And we should have too; we'll know for next time.