Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests • Hacker News Board

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#921

Post by rsync » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 7:16 PM UTC

nkurz wrote: post #801

rsync wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If the USA implemented all of Switzerland’s gun laws, a citizen who passes a background check would be able to buy a newly-made full-automatic machine gun that is not allowed in the US outside of law enforcement or military." There are several things wrong with the above statement ... First, in many (most) states of the United States, you can indeed purchase a fully automatic weapon / suppressor / grenade launcher /…

I like most of your answer, but didn't like that you silently dropped "newly-made" from the OP's criteria. You're welcome to argue that it doesn't matter, and just as welcome to argue that this is a good thing, but it seems odd to avoid mentioning that there is no legal way for a US citizen to purchase a fully automatic weapon manufactured after 1986 --- and that guns not subject to this ban are in very short supply…

You are correct - I did indeed miss the "newly-made" qualifier.

For the sake of argument, however, a brand new rifle chassis mated with an RDIAS seems to fit the bill, yes ?

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#922

Post by kaonashi » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 7:29 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #32

schuke wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m from the mainland and totally with HK’s cause. But I do think the violence is at least unnecessary if not detrimental to the movement. If tanks roll in, there’s no point using violence as they’ll be crushed. If they don’t, it seems to me there’s enough space for peaceful protests, which can be even more effectual in many ways. And the people of Hong Kong have shown an incredible amount of creativity in non-violen…

> the violence is at least unnecessary if not detrimental to the movement Judgement is complicated by documented evidence of undercover Hong Kong police dressing up as protesters and acting like belligerent idiots [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/22/world/hong-kong-police-pr...

Not to mention that the protests were initially peaceful, then they were repeatedly attacked by gangs at the behest of the local authorities.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#923

Post by jamesb93 » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 9:32 PM UTC

program_whiz wrote: post #13

Sure, the kid was swinging at the officer, and I suppose that warrants the officer acting in self-defense. But another question is, what are the protesters supposed to do? The government has all the power, and can simply snuff out any resistence. If you just stand in the streets, they really don't care, they are going to take your freedom. Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator that just decided they were going to…

It's not proportionate to shoot someone for fighting you with their fists.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#924

Post by easytiger » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 9:53 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #919

easytiger wrote: post #876

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies, but I was clearly making humorous reference to the hyperbolic knee jerk condemnation of China in the thread irrelevant to the situation. Not actually making an ideological statement.

Oh, I see. Unfortunately, many readers won't read a comment like that any more closely than I did. It's best not to go there when the topic is inflammatory.

Perhaps my British isles sensibilities don't translate to American very well. I'll be more deliberate in future

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#925

Post by galkk » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 11:42 PM UTC

ethbro wrote: post #906

galkk wrote: post #882

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Citation for 5.56 vs .223? > Curious where you're getting your information? The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Unsafe-Arms-and... page 8: In Firearms Chambered For: 223 Remington Do Not Use These Cartridges: 5.56mm Military --- Also literally first entry in FAQ on SAAMI site: https://saami.org/faqs/#ammunition-firearm-chambered Can I use 5.56x45mm,…

5.56 isn't SAAMI-standardized in the first place, so they legally shouldn't say anything other than their wording there. Which you also see on many .223 rifles as you noted. But that's a legal perspective. From an engineering perspective, you can certainly shoot it. With risks somewhere between "It will behave exactly like .223" and "It will explosively disassemble your gun." But we're not talking about rocket scienc…

Dude, this is insane. I sincerely hope that you don't apply this logic in public shooting ranges. You asked for citation, got it, and choose to ignore it.

What you're saying is equivalent that you could go on a car that weighs 5.65 tons on a bridge that can carry only 5 tons, (given that for such bridges the both standard body and constructor explicitly says: "do not do that").

Is it possible? Of course. You even could reload your ammo with nitroglycerin and it still will fit into the rifle.

Yes, there could be some protection built into construction, but this risk worth it?

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#926

Post by CompanionCuuube » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:20 AM UTC

close04 wrote: post #774

CompanionCuuube wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironic, their first inclination is to call people who have the "murder guns" that they complain heavily about.

Because they represent authority and the law just like in any other country. The fact that LEOs carry guns is because they are surrounded by a lot of other individuals who are unable to take smart decisions while wielding a deadly firearm. Your statement is forced just to make the point. I don't think the gun control topic was ever related to law enforcement or military personnel carrying guns. It's more about having…

> Because they represent authority and the law just like in any other country. The fact that LEOs carry guns is because they are surrounded by a lot of other individuals who are unable to take smart decisions while wielding a deadly firearm.

Even in locations where firearms are heavily restricted from the civilian populace, the police remain armed. The funny thing is that individuals wanting bodyguards hire armed bodyguards. The fact is that LEOs and private bodyguards carry guns because they are an effective method of stopping an attacker.

> Your statement is forced just to make the point. I don't think the gun control topic was ever related to law enforcement or military personnel carrying guns.

The lack of relation is purely due to the limits of your rational thinking and ability to apply logical principles.

> It's more about having guns easily accessible to violent and repeat offenders, mentally unstable people, etc.

The most recent talk by presidential candidates(even if their actual election is gratefully a longshot) has shown that to be a lie.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#927

Post by systematical » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 1:48 AM UTC

ptx wrote: post #857

systematical wrote: post #815

What is the protestors' end game here? Hasn't the extradition bill been killed? What do they need to end the protests and return to normal? I am genuinely curious.

The five demands: 1. Withdraw the bill - which finally did happen, after much stalling. 2. Independent investigation of the police intervention. 3. Not classifying the mostly peaceful protests as riots. 4. Release of the many arrested protesters. (Who could face very long prison sentences because of previous point.) 5. Democratic elections of the HK government - which seems wildly optimistic but is apparently in the…

Thank you

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#928

Post by sjwright » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 2:12 AM UTC

brightball wrote: post #678

Ancalagon wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you were being funny, but I actually wholly agree with this statement. Every gun owner should have safes/locks for their guns.

IMO every high school should be teaching first aid, gun safety, etc.

Normalisation of guns is part of the problem.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#929

Post by goblin89 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:24 AM UTC

mieseratte wrote: post #854

tsegratis wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shooting to kill a 16yr old instead of getting beaten up is justified?? Not where I'm from -- The only way to end such confrontation is simplistically to love your enemy; or at least stop being quite so mean ;) Edit: I've never been shot or faced those injuries, but I've certainly been in worse situations than that police officer. So just on that basis that I'm judging his actions

It takes one blow from a bat to the head to die. Yours is asking someone to risk death death, not a beating. Were it simple fists I’d wonder what lack of training these officers have. Weapons are another matter.

What about aiming not in the chest at least? Would a bullet in a foot have enough stopping power, without being so short of lethal outcome?

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#930

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 3:35 AM UTC

goblin89 wrote: post #929

mieseratte wrote: post #854

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes one blow from a bat to the head to die. Yours is asking someone to risk death death, not a beating. Were it simple fists I’d wonder what lack of training these officers have. Weapons are another matter.

What about aiming not in the chest at least? Would a bullet in a foot have enough stopping power, without being so short of lethal outcome?

> Would a bullet in a foot have enough stopping power, without being so short of lethal outcome?

Not reliably, which is why every organization that carries and trains with guns trains center of mass shots except for specialized marksmen training for specialized circumstances, who tend to train harder but even more lethal shots.

When you are using a gun, the choices for reliable stopping are nearly identical to those for maximum fatality. If you aren't justified in killing someone, you have no business firing a gun at them, and if you are justified in firing a gun at someone, aiming anywhere in the limbs doesn't make it nonlethal, it just raises the risk to yourself and bystanders by making the outcome less certain.