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Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

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Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#151

Post by asdfman123 »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #55
weiming wrote: post #30

Extensive air pollution from China or India that surpasses the West also doesn't seem to get much attention, e.g. [1] [2] Greta visited the US and gave some compelling speeches. Will she visit China and India and do the same? [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/07/01/china-emits-... [2] https://qz.com/india/1581665/indias-carbon-emissions-growing...

It gets loads of attention, not least as both India and China have developed way beyond the free "developing nation" pass they got in previous climate agreements. Which plenty said was a big mistake at the time, but we are where we are. No doubt if the climate movement in China and India invite her, she might well go. Well, perhaps not China as they lack freedom of association and speech. There have been protests in…

If you were a rising country coming up from behind in a world where the US dominates, would you want to reduce your growth to ensure you don't catch up to the rest of the world as quickly?

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#153

Post by asdfman123 »

yellowstuff wrote: post #42
irrational wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the ocean is being overfished and is being polluted by fishing. The clear answer is to ban fishing. Though, as someone who dislikes all seafood, this is easy for me to say.

Like prohibition in the US, a ban that is unpopular and impossible to enforce can be counterproductive. Consider the difficulties in enforcing a ban on something that 1) Millions of people depend on for their livelihood; 2) Happens in the middle of the ocean.

Yeah, in the middle of the ocean the only governmental/law enforcing body that really exists is the ship's captain. Beyond that, people can do whatever the hell they want because there's no one else for miles.

Also, no, the world is not going to stop fishing because a few people on HN think it's a good idea. Trying to enforce your own sense of morality on others is pointless.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#154

Post by walshemj »

rantwasp wrote: post #26

This is known. The number I have heard floated around is 45%. So, commercial fishing nets are a big problem when it comes to plastic in the oceans. And here we are "saving the planet", by reducing the plastic straw consumption: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/18/anti-straw-mo... https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-06-07/plasti... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-b...…

The cynic in me might think that corporates getting behind "pious" things like banning plastic drink straws allows them to avoid other more costly changes they should make.

Also banning straws does impact disabled people who as usual are often ignored.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#155

Post by amelius »

hanniabu wrote: post #144
amelius wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or only allow certified nets, and make them cost so much that you'll never want to dump them in sea.

Also valid, but in this case you'll still need to check their ships before they leave. Though I guess the cost of the nets could help pay for these checks. I imagine in both cases the ships would just have a boat meet them out at sea with additional nets so they either don't need to pay the fine for nets lost or don't need to buy expensive certified nets.

> I imagine in both cases the ships would just have a boat meet them out at sea with additional nets so they either don't need to pay the fine for nets lost or don't need to buy expensive certified nets.

I don't think they would go through that much trouble just for not bringing a net back home. In any case, you could also put an ID or name on a net, just like a license-plate.

Also, having nets without certification would be a crime, so that boat waiting at sea would be in problems if caught.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#156

Post by asdkhadsj »

jadell wrote: post #146
benj111 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"resemble tasteless Cheese puffs" Resemble in looks or taste?

Both. They're made of corn starch, which is what puffy Cheetos are made of, and manufactured literally the same way, except without the cheese flavor powder mixed in. They taste like "nothing" (well, they probably taste like pure corn starch but I've never eaten that so I don't have a reference.) Source: a member of my immediate family worked at a company that manufactured them and brought home many samples. We'd fre…

Out of curiosity, do you risk rodent infestations using those? I would imagine rodents/bugs happily eat most human food, cheese puffs included, so if this is literally the same won't it suffer rodent risk?

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#157

Post by EGreg »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #32
rantwasp wrote: post #26

This is known. The number I have heard floated around is 45%. So, commercial fishing nets are a big problem when it comes to plastic in the oceans. And here we are "saving the planet", by reducing the plastic straw consumption: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/18/anti-straw-mo... https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-06-07/plasti... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-b...…

And here you are creating a straw man argument. Reducing straws won’t “save the planet” on its own. We will improve the planet by doing multiple things. Reducing plastic use (less packaging, fewer straws, reusable shopping bags) all play a role in a much bigger effort.

In general we should stop focusing on 1% solutions — that even if somehow 100% successful will only solve 1% of the problem .

Like focusing on mass murders or killing by cop only, in the USA, when talking about gun violence. I get that it’s the most visible thing but it sucks all the political capital out of the discussion to do something major.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#158

Post by [deleted] »

paulgerhardt wrote: post #121

I spend a day or two every year cleaning up a beach on a island off the coast of China. Its location relative to local sea currents makes it a natural garbage trap. It has been a radicalizing experience but maybe not in the way you would think. Anecdotally about a third of the trash I pick up is fishing related - some nets, some buoys, but mostly thousands of small plastic sardine sized fishing net floats. About a th…

[deleted]

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#159

Post by imtringued »

swebs wrote: post #98
random314 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What aboutism is all well and good. But climate change is a much bigger planet wide threat compared to local air pollution in India and China, which mostly affects locals in India and China. On a per capita basis the western world, especially USA, contribute the most co2 emissions. So that is where the climate protests should start. And dumping all kinds of what aboutism criticisms on a 16 year old is not a good look…

Why are per capita statistics more important than total emissions? Are the glaciers going to reform because China also has a billion people? China produces more than double the raw amounts of CO2 than the USA. Though I am willing to shift some of the blame to countries who outsource their manufacturing to China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...

Only 58% of the population in china lives in cities and therefore is responsible for pollution. The other 42% are most likely emitting almost nothing. Telling them to cut their emissions even further isn't going to work. Meanwhile Americans with their pickup trucks and 30 minute commutes could trivially change their carbon footprint by simply getting a more efficient car.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#160

Post by imagetic »

I recall reading two years ago several reports which claimed that around 90% of all the plastic in the world's oceans flows there through just 10 rivers.

> "The shipping and fishing industries also play a part. In 2018 researchers found that, in terms of weight, almost half of the plastic in the Great Pacific Garbage Patch -- a notorious area of floating trash three times the size of France -- was made up of fishing nets. On the other hand, microplastics made up 94% of the estimated 1.8 trillion tiny pieces floating in the area."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/24/health/plastic-pollution-rive...

Most of the time all the stats don't add up, but either way, humanity leaves a big mess and plastic is probably one of those materials we will regret inventing.

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