Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says • Hacker News Board

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#101

Post by wsc981 » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 1:36 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #3

Wonder if this will have an impact on plastic straw bans on land. It was always a feel-good hi-viz, low-impact measure given little evidence behind the measures.

In Thailand they plan to put a bit more effort in, over the next 2 years.

> End of this year, Thailand will be free from three types of plastic – microbeads, cap seals and oxo-degradable plastics – and from four other types of single-use plastics by 2022, according to a road map that got the Cabinet’s initial nod on Tuesday.

> The four single-use plastics to be rid of by 2022 are: lightweight plastic bags less than 36 microns thick; styrofoam food containers for takeaways; plastic cups and plastic straws – with the exception of those who still need to use them such as the elderly, patients and children.

I hope Thailand sticks with these plans. Plastics use is huge over here and in my opinion these plans could make a big difference.

Source: https://www.nationthailand.com/national/30367931

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#102

Post by MiroF » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 1:36 PM UTC

ibeckermayer wrote: post #54

MichaelApproved wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here you are creating a straw man argument. Reducing straws won’t “save the planet” on its own. We will improve the planet by doing multiple things. Reducing plastic use (less packaging, fewer straws, reusable shopping bags) all play a role in a much bigger effort.

Except that’s not improving the planet even a bit — chances are, every one of those straws being used in an American city would end up in a well run landfill and have minimal impact on the environment. It’s yet another example of knuckle dragging elites using state force to virtue signal. Meanwhile the real sources of the problem get ignored.

"every one of those straws being used in an American city would end up in a well run landfill"

oh you sweet summer child

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#103

Post by ryannevius » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 1:37 PM UTC

weiming wrote: post #30

Extensive air pollution from China or India that surpasses the West also doesn't seem to get much attention, e.g. [1] [2] Greta visited the US and gave some compelling speeches. Will she visit China and India and do the same? [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/07/01/china-emits-... [2] https://qz.com/india/1581665/indias-carbon-emissions-growing...

It's not just China or India. It's the entirety of Southeast Asia and West Africa for much of the year too (typically starting in the next month or so). I've lived in Southeast Asia for a couple of years of my life and even had to move my family out of Thailand because the pollution is so bad (not just air pollution).

AirVisual [1] shows the impact of these areas pretty dramatically. At times, the air pollution in Africa is so bad that its impact can be felt directly in Brasil.

[1] https://www.airvisual.com/earth?nav

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#104

Post by MiroF » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 1:37 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #77

rantwasp wrote: post #26

This is known. The number I have heard floated around is 45%. So, commercial fishing nets are a big problem when it comes to plastic in the oceans. And here we are "saving the planet", by reducing the plastic straw consumption: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/18/anti-straw-mo... https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-06-07/plasti... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-b...…

I sometimes wonder if this "plastic straw" wasn't another of 4Chan's trolling attempts... Like, sure, reduce plastic straw usage, but most bars just replaced them with paper straws. That is obviously a stupidly wrong solution, the vast majority of the population can easily manage without straws entirely, so really it just shows that people don't actually care about the environment, it's all just virtue signalling...

If people are really getting this upset over their straws being replaced we don't stand a chance at the level of consumption change needed to combat climate change

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#105

Post by rantwasp » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 1:38 PM UTC

swebs wrote: post #98

random314 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What aboutism is all well and good. But climate change is a much bigger planet wide threat compared to local air pollution in India and China, which mostly affects locals in India and China. On a per capita basis the western world, especially USA, contribute the most co2 emissions. So that is where the climate protests should start. And dumping all kinds of what aboutism criticisms on a 16 year old is not a good look…

Why are per capita statistics more important than total emissions? Are the glaciers going to reform because China also has a billion people? China produces more than double the raw amounts of CO2 than the USA. Though I am willing to shift some of the blame to countries who outsource their manufacturing to China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...

it comes down to standard of living. if you're a developed country you have the luxury to care about the environment. if you are playing catch-up and are also aggressively building/developing the resources you use and the waste you generate are going to have a totally different profile.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#106

Post by MiroF » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 1:39 PM UTC

rantwasp wrote: post #73

lonelappde wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your proposal is what, New York City should somehow ban ocean fishing, instead of controlling plastic waste in it's jurisdiction?

i think banning ocean fishing would be a disaster actually. what we need is responsible fishing with proper management of the fishing nets (i.e. huge penalties for mismanaging/dumping/abandoning the fishing nets) also the elephant in the room is that an individual in the US has little to no control over huge sources of pollution apart from feel good activism (look at this! i'm using a paper straw! I saved 2 turtles t…

"US has little to no control over huge sources of pollution"

Not trying to suggest you can create structural change here, but just as a product of being an American consumer you have a larger power to reduce GHG emissions than most of the other 6.6 billion people on the planet.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#107

Post by viscanti » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 1:40 PM UTC

MichaelApproved wrote: post #32

rantwasp wrote: post #26

This is known. The number I have heard floated around is 45%. So, commercial fishing nets are a big problem when it comes to plastic in the oceans. And here we are "saving the planet", by reducing the plastic straw consumption: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/18/anti-straw-mo... https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-06-07/plasti... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-b...…

And here you are creating a straw man argument. Reducing straws won’t “save the planet” on its own. We will improve the planet by doing multiple things. Reducing plastic use (less packaging, fewer straws, reusable shopping bags) all play a role in a much bigger effort.

> We will improve the planet by doing multiple things.

The problem is that people don't have infinite time or attention. So if you raise awareness and guy buy-in for something like straws, you took away time and awareness from things that could have actually made a difference. To make things worse, people will eventually realize that getting rid of straws didn't have much impact and would be less likely to participate in future causes.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#108

Post by MiroF » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 1:42 PM UTC

jajag wrote: post #97

MiroF wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting seeing how the Right is changing it's rhetoric as public opinion changes. A few years ago it was "this isn't happening" now it's "these other people do it far worse than we do."

True, the right has been in outright denial of the facts, but the left has also been in denial about the contribution its policies have to the problem - they after all have been the cheerleaders for globalisation. No one is going to come out of this smelling of roses.

The "Left" (not the democrats) was not a cheerleader for globalization.

I also don't buy that if everyone was producing at smaller scales at home, this problem would be at all better. This is a consumption problem, not a "globalization" problem.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#109

Post by rantwasp » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 1:42 PM UTC

vfc1 wrote: post #100

I mean one thing does not take away from the other, it's necessary to stop wasting so many fish nets, AND reduce single-use plastics, AND fish less, etc. It's not OR it's AND. This leads to reasoning like "it's fishing nets the actual issue, I might as well continue throwing a full trash can full of packages every 3 days". It's not true, fishing nets is actually only 45%, the other 55% we can still work on that's a l…

agree that we have to work on multiple things, but the point was that a disproportionate amount of resources are placed behind getting rid of something that is a drop in the bucket. it's not "should we get rid of A or B?" We agree it's A and B, but we need to focus on the thing that has the bigger impact first.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#110

Post by MiroF » Wed, Oct 02, 2019, 1:43 PM UTC

rantwasp wrote: post #76

athenot wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> chances are, every one of those straws being used in an American city would end up in a well run landfill My front yard disagrees. It's adjacent to a somewhat busy road, and straws are part of the debris I have to routinely clean up (along with various wrappers and cigarette butts).

that's anecdotal evidence. how may of the straws used in your city end up in a front yard?

The other poster provided no evidence at all, just stated things authoritatively.