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Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

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Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if we keep building colleges, no.

Except there is only one Harvard University. You could spend billions making a new University next door that has just as high standard of teachers and facilities, but it wouldn't be Harvard. Not that being "Harvard" would make it better, but to a lot of people the prestige of the name is important. So to that effect, it is a zero sum game.

[deleted]

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who’s actually doing this? In a way that is actually documented? Most evidence I’ve seen of this happening has been hearsay. Note: Trying to make the applicant pool more diverse is not the same as hiring someone solely because of diversity.

>Who’s actually doing this? In a way that is actually documented? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Also I think it stretches the bounds of credulity to assert that an industry that bangs on and on about wanting to increase diversity is somehow also a perfect, disinterested and impartial judge.

OP made a positive claim, it's on them to prove it.

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#573

In response to this, schools will continue to devalue the importance of test scores, and lean more on the interview, essay, "personality" and "well-roundedness" of the candidates. Make the process more subjective so that you cannot be shown to be biased according to some numeric criteria.

It will undoubtedly happen that someone hired due to diversity and not skill will do something very wrong, and possibly cause great harm to others. I wonder what the reaction will be then...? Luckily, the world still follows the laws of physics.

People have been put into undeserving positions for the history of humanity.

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#574

I think the thing I find most objectionable about the AA policies is that they proceed from an intellectually lazy and flawed premise -- that a group's representation following a selective process should exactly equal its representation in the general population. That is demonstrably false from general experience in life.

It's only false because of the extreme inequality of opportunity in this country.

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#576

This ruling is a travesty and I hope the Supreme Court overturns it when this is appealed. It is very clear that race-conscious admissions are systematically racist and discriminatory. Take a look at the distribution of students by race in the University of California system, where they're not permitted to discriminate in this manner, thanks to Prop 209 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_California_Proposition_20..…

Well, to be fair, the University of California accepts more international students than Harvard, which is generally going to inflate the percentage of Asian students. Not saying this ruling isn't a detriment to Asian applicants, but probably not by as large of an amount as it would seem at first.

No, only small fraction of UC students are international, and they aren't responsible for UC system's high Asian representation.

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While about 8 percent, or about 530, of Harvard's undergraduates were black, Lani Guinier, a Harvard law professor, and Henry Louis Gates Jr., the chairman of Harvard's African and African-American studies department, pointed out that the majority of them -- perhaps as many as two-thirds -- were West Indian and African immigrants or their children, or to a lesser extent, children of biracial couples. > They said th…

This article is over 15 years old, are the statistics it cites still accurate?

Yes. See for example Paul Tough's book "The Years That Matter The Most" which came out a few months ago.

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#578

So we use tell the kids to study hard, get good grade and test well in the SAT/ACT. What exactly do we tell them now? How exactly do you tell a kid to be "awesome"?

That there are other Ivy League schools, a ton of other top schools, and a ton of amazing public state universities? That life ultimately is not fair and there is no objective measurement of merit to attend any of these institutions? That straight As and 1600s on the SAT are not all that matters in life? Maybe, Harvard isn't that big of a deal, in reality, there aren't really any jobs dominated by Harvard undergrads.

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no logical errors, and the article is not logically vacuous. >East Asians are less represented in leadership because leadership perceives East Asians are being less leaderly. Can you provide evidence that this is what's going on instead of something else? Plenty of leaders in the US are East Asian. >using the symptoms of racism in order to justify the racism itself You didn't present your own evidence that…

Except that China is rapidly catching up to the US in terms of innovation. Take a look at the number of patents filed by China and US in recent years. People look at China 30 years ago and use that as evidence of China today, ignoring the fact the the country has changed so much over these years. There are more Asian leaders in the world's top tech companies than there are Europeans. Why do you think that so many Asi…

As mentioned in the article, the Chinese government itself admits the quality of its patents are suspect and not indicative of true innovation.

It's wonderful how much economic progress China has made, and serious academic progress as well. But that's not relevant here.

China discourages non-ethnic Chinese from having control over Chinese companies, and has extremely few foreigners to begin with so that's not a valid comparison.

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#580
post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think the kids in poor immigrant neighborhoods are in worse positions than poor kids in eastern Kentucky? Your line of reasoning did a dodge there, swapping out between geographic demographics and racial demographics. I don't think all kids in poor immigrant neighborhoods are in worse positions than poor kids in Eastern Kentucky. I do think that all the white-looking kids in eastern Kentucky, regardless of o…

It’s almost 2020, not 1940. We have major cities that are majority nonwhite. We have entire statewide school districts that are mostly nonwhite. We have huge metropolitan areas that are mostly nonwhite. You can walk into an expensive luxury apartment complex in an immigrant heavy city and find tons of nonwhite people.

And yet the data still shows widespread economic disparity due to discrimination
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