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Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

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Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#551

Post by shadowgovt »

legostormtroopr wrote: post #541
shadowgovt wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if we keep building colleges, no.

Except there is only one Harvard University. You could spend billions making a new University next door that has just as high standard of teachers and facilities, but it wouldn't be Harvard. Not that being "Harvard" would make it better, but to a lot of people the prestige of the name is important. So to that effect, it is a zero sum game.

Does Harvard maintain that lauded reputation if it's known to admit a racial monoculture? Especially in, say, the technology fields, where we've seen the negative impact of such monoculture in the quality of software developed using machine learning algorithms?

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#552

Post by sushid »

ravar wrote: post #488
Ancalagon wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the ultimate solution. Of course people will still try to game this system by e.g. sending their kids to high school in poorer districts.

Arguably if people try to game the system in that way it would be socially good. Don't we want the privileged people going to the same schools as poorer people?

Because it’s zero sum? The rich kid pretending to be poor is taking away a seat from an actual poor kid.

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#553

Post by shadowgovt »

BrandonM wrote: post #540
shadowgovt wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who says fixing income inequality is unachievable?

In a given time period, let's say a year, you may personally work harder or smarter than in some other year. Do you believe that you should be compensated the same regardless of how hard or smart you work in a given year? If you're a self-employed craftworker who produces hammers, should your income be the same each year, without regard for the quality or quantity of hammers you produced that year, and without consid…

I don't think fixing incoming equality means zeroing out differences in income. It means shortening the gap between the bottom quartile and the top quartile, which is currently huge.

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#554

Post by sjg007 »

spullara wrote: post #289
EForEndeavour wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be curious to meet or read about those Harvard students with the lowest SAT scores of their cohort (assuming the minimum is not 1600), since they must be extraordinary in some other ways.

Based on the analysis done for the court case, they are their athletes.

This is why you row I guess...

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#555

Post by anonu »

richmunk567 wrote: post #522
JamesBarney wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're misreading the statistics. If students are admitted in a race blind way then you get 16 times as many Asians as African Americans. He's just arguing they're not 16x more likely to be leaders than African Americans.

You are spot on. There appears to be a fair amount of evidence to support your observation: https://www.unz.com/article/why-harvard-is-right-to-discrimi...

This article is really interesting. I'm not quite sure what to make of it. it feels borderline bigoted, basing it's entire argument on some unmeasurable "return to the average".

Also not sure why the parent user is posting it multiple times. Not cool...

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#556

Post by dannypgh »

azernik wrote: post #412
dannypgh wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is ultimately a response to the fact that Jews were treated as the same people by policies designed to exclude them. There were no such policies for various Christian groups. Practically for much of this history in this part of the world, "Jewish" has been used interchangeably with Ashkenazi. Jewish is not an ethnicity, but Ashkenazi is, and most of the Jewish people at a place like Harvard (or applied-but-denied)…

> Jewish is not an ethnicity, but Ashkenazi is This is, to put it mildly, an opinion rather than an established fact. Ethnicity is a social construct, and many Jewish societies do construct an ethnicity that crosses the intra-Jewish Ashkenazi/Sephardi/Persian/etc. lines. The biggest example of this is of course Israel, but you also see this in other mixed-background Jewish communities like e.g. Los Angeles or France,…

Your point is taken. But, I think there's consensus that the term "Jewish" doesn't unambiguously refer to an ethnicity, because one common definition is that Jewish refers to a religion. Orthodox Judiasm confers full "Jewishness" on Orthodox converts, and most ethnicity definitions have to double-check with one's birth / blood relatives.

There is a belief that many of the "Jewish" ethnic groups form one nation (Zionism tends to hold this) and I suppose there are people who extend that to a broader definition of "ethnicity."

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#557

Post by changchuming »

richmunk567 wrote: post #536
ballark wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article is full of obvious logical errors. They claim that East Asians develop cognitive capacity at an earlier age than other races and that gives East Asians a compounding practice advantage that gives them the edge in academic scores. The article claims, based on this premise, that universities like Harvard should actually discriminate even more against East Asians. The article is full of obvious leaps design…

There are no logical errors, and the article is not logically vacuous. >East Asians are less represented in leadership because leadership perceives East Asians are being less leaderly. Can you provide evidence that this is what's going on instead of something else? Plenty of leaders in the US are East Asian. >using the symptoms of racism in order to justify the racism itself You didn't present your own evidence that…

Except that China is rapidly catching up to the US in terms of innovation. Take a look at the number of patents filed by China and US in recent years. People look at China 30 years ago and use that as evidence of China today, ignoring the fact the the country has changed so much over these years.

There are more Asian leaders in the world's top tech companies than there are Europeans. Why do you think that so many Asian people in Asia are able to assume leadership roles and grow their companies at breakneck pace and yet Asian Americans are somehow unfit to do the job in America?

Re: Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions Process

#558

Post by changchuming »

anonu wrote: post #555
richmunk567 wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are spot on. There appears to be a fair amount of evidence to support your observation: https://www.unz.com/article/why-harvard-is-right-to-discrimi...

This article is really interesting. I'm not quite sure what to make of it. it feels borderline bigoted, basing it's entire argument on some unmeasurable "return to the average". Also not sure why the parent user is posting it multiple times. Not cool...

7 day account. Not gonna say it's a troll but I'm suspicious.
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