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Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history
21–30 of 46 posts
Re: Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history
#22Would it be safe to say that CIA (and NSA and other parts of the intelligence community) is the actual "State within the State" (i.e., the so-called "Deep State")?
"National security", almost at any cost, became the paramount prerogative of US intelligence agencies. However, they seem to be using a military criteria in a civil environment, which was supposed to be transparent enough for accountability.
Re: Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history
#23To better understand this organization and its inner workings i highly recommend the book "Overthrow" by Stephen Kinzer.
How about "Legacy of Ashes"? https://www.amazon.com/Legacy-Ashes-History-Tim-Weiner/dp/03...
you know this one is good because the cia denounced it. i started it earlier this week.
Re: Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history
#24It's perfect timing this gets brought up because with all this news about Xinjiang, HK, East Ukraine, etc. we need to make sure China, Russia and so on also let us examine their transparency and protocols so we can give a rigorous, thorough checkup for human rights abuses. This being all about fairness and truth and we need to make sure everyone else can be held accountable to the same standards. I look forward to a…
yes, and federal prosecutors should order hits on defense witnesses since the bad guys can do it
Re: Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history
#25Would it be safe to say that CIA (and NSA and other parts of the intelligence community) is the actual "State within the State" (i.e., the so-called "Deep State")? "National security", almost at any cost, became the paramount prerogative of US intelligence agencies. However, they seem to be using a military criteria in a civil environment, which was supposed to be transparent enough for accountability.
I'd argue today's situation is, despite many problems, still comparatively better than the past: the Hoover era, as the most salient example, was vastly more corrupt and undemocratic.
It's crucial in this regard to distinguish two issues: (a) to what degree do these institutions wield power unchecked by democratically-elected/legitimized institutions (President/Congress/Courts), and (b) those institutions commanding certain secret programs you (or I) disagree with (i. e. the stuff Snowden revealed).
Despite some regression in the last two years, there is still at least _some_ accountability, as the current whistleblower demonstrates. But, of course, the safety margin is shrinking. With enough turnover in some key positions, a future whistleblower may just find their legitimate complaint buried.
Re: Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history
#26Would it be safe to say that CIA (and NSA and other parts of the intelligence community) is the actual "State within the State" (i.e., the so-called "Deep State")? "National security", almost at any cost, became the paramount prerogative of US intelligence agencies. However, they seem to be using a military criteria in a civil environment, which was supposed to be transparent enough for accountability.
I'd argue today's situation is, despite many problems, still comparatively better than the past: the Hoover era, as the most salient example, was vastly more corrupt and undemocratic. It's crucial in this regard to distinguish two issues: (a) to what degree do these institutions wield power unchecked by democratically-elected/legitimized institutions (President/Congress/Courts), and (b) those institutions commanding…
> With enough turnover in some key positions, a future whistleblower may just find their legitimate complaint buried.
Couldn't you say this has already happened with e.g. Snowden?
Re: Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history
#27It's perfect timing this gets brought up because with all this news about Xinjiang, HK, East Ukraine, etc. we need to make sure China, Russia and so on also let us examine their transparency and protocols so we can give a rigorous, thorough checkup for human rights abuses. This being all about fairness and truth and we need to make sure everyone else can be held accountable to the same standards. I look forward to a…
So in your eyes, "probably better than China" is the optimum?
If USA government employees are more accountable than China government employees, China wins!
Re: Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd argue today's situation is, despite many problems, still comparatively better than the past: the Hoover era, as the most salient example, was vastly more corrupt and undemocratic. It's crucial in this regard to distinguish two issues: (a) to what degree do these institutions wield power unchecked by democratically-elected/legitimized institutions (President/Congress/Courts), and (b) those institutions commanding…
> With enough turnover in some key positions, a future whistleblower may just find their legitimate complaint buried. Couldn't you say this has already happened with e.g. Snowden?
Did Snowden try to go they official channels? I don't think he did, Snowden (mostly rightly) decided to bypass the existing reporting systems.
Re: Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history
#29It's perfect timing this gets brought up because with all this news about Xinjiang, HK, East Ukraine, etc. we need to make sure China, Russia and so on also let us examine their transparency and protocols so we can give a rigorous, thorough checkup for human rights abuses. This being all about fairness and truth and we need to make sure everyone else can be held accountable to the same standards. I look forward to a…
So in your eyes, "probably better than China" is the optimum?
> So in your eyes, "probably better than China" is the optimum?
Being "better", whatever that means, would still be at the bottom. It'd be difficult to do worse, assuming the Xinjiang / HK stuff.
Re: Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_of_the_president_of_the...
Upvote for trying, but executive privilege isn't quite it, IMO. All that does is protect the papers and communications of government officials in a way that makes them less accessible to the courts. State secrets privilege[0] is closer, but not quite it. All that does is allow the executive to say in court "sorry, that's classified, state secrets privilege," and have certain evidence excluded. It doesn't really get t…
The federal government has the power to classify information because it owns it. The primary purpose of a state is to preserve itself. The ability to control access to secrets is critical to this. It's a bit like asking "What gives the government the right to execute the laws?" Because that's what it's meant to do.