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Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history

muckrock.com

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Re: Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history

#11

Post by pmiller2 »

handedness wrote: post #7
pmiller2 wrote: post #5

Great article. It brings back to mind a question I had recently: what gives the federal government, specifically the executive branch, the power to classify information at all? I know there are laws and executive orders that say they can do that, but I’m wondering what the ultimate authority derives from in the Constitution. If it’s not a simple explanation, are there any scholarly legal articles I can look at?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_of_the_president_of_the...

Upvote for trying, but executive privilege isn't quite it, IMO. All that does is protect the papers and communications of government officials in a way that makes them less accessible to the courts.

State secrets privilege[0] is closer, but not quite it. All that does is allow the executive to say in court "sorry, that's classified, state secrets privilege," and have certain evidence excluded. It doesn't really get to the root of what allowed the government to classify the information in the first place.

My suspicion is that it derives somehow from the president's role as commander-in-chief, but I'm not very familiar with the legal scholarship behind it.

Re: Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history

#12

Post by opportune »

zarro wrote: post #4

I always found it annoying how things get "declassified" only after anyone that could have provided context and good points of objection, in order to develop a better system of rules, is dead. How can you expect to perfect a system by making the negative feedback loop ineffective.

It’s to protect themselves, usually the really nasty stuff doesn’t get declassified until the perps are dead or in adult diapers for the same reason

Re: Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history

#13

Post by pdonis »

pmiller2 wrote: post #5

Great article. It brings back to mind a question I had recently: what gives the federal government, specifically the executive branch, the power to classify information at all? I know there are laws and executive orders that say they can do that, but I’m wondering what the ultimate authority derives from in the Constitution. If it’s not a simple explanation, are there any scholarly legal articles I can look at?

This Supreme Court case might be of interest:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Reynolds

Re: Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history

#15

Post by vonmoltke »

zarro wrote: post #10
vonmoltke wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a tricky balance between that and protecting the people involved from harm, as well as protecting methods that may still be of use. I think the US government is too conservative about when to release information, but in many cases even less conservative standards will result in information being withheld until most or all of the principals are dead.

I agree that's the argument used, but you have to weigh that against the possibility that it also incentivises malicious actor(s) to subversive behavior because they will not be held accountable for their actions. In the grand scheme of things it comes to a subjective decision point, and I would tend to argue that an increase in accountability toward the customers (us), wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

Hence why I think the US government is too conservative in deciding these matters. The accountability to us is supposed to come via our Congresscritters, but that clearly has issues.

Re: Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history

#16

Post by no_opinions »

It's perfect timing this gets brought up because with all this news about Xinjiang, HK, East Ukraine, etc. we need to make sure China, Russia and so on also let us examine their transparency and protocols so we can give a rigorous, thorough checkup for human rights abuses. This being all about fairness and truth and we need to make sure everyone else can be held accountable to the same standards.

I look forward to a new muckrock feature where FOIA can be sent to Iran, China, and Russia to open up like USA and other European countries.

Also since US journalists evangelize Snowden and Assange, I'm sure Russia/China/other countries targeting USA won't have any leakers themselves. Their people being so well treated and obedient, such great gentlemen, even if they feel flustered and out of place over there, no matter, they can just trust in the virtues of their system and everything will be just fine. :)

/s

Re: Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history

#17

Post by lioeters »

readhn wrote: post #2

To better understand this organization and its inner workings i highly recommend the book "Overthrow" by Stephen Kinzer.

The author's name looked familiar - then I found that this year he published a book titled _Poisoner in Chief: Sidney Gottlieb and the CIA Search for Mind Control_. Looking forward to reading that soon, and will search for your recommendation too.

Re: Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history

#18

Post by [deleted] »

pmiller2 wrote: post #5

Great article. It brings back to mind a question I had recently: what gives the federal government, specifically the executive branch, the power to classify information at all? I know there are laws and executive orders that say they can do that, but I’m wondering what the ultimate authority derives from in the Constitution. If it’s not a simple explanation, are there any scholarly legal articles I can look at?

[deleted]

Re: Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history

#19

Post by eternalban »

readhn wrote: post #2

To better understand this organization and its inner workings i highly recommend the book "Overthrow" by Stephen Kinzer.

'The Secret Team: The CIA And Its Allies In Control Of The United States And The World'

L. FLETCHER PROUTY, Col., U.S. Air Force (Ret.) 1973

https://archive.org/details/pdfy-JnCrjsoqI22z8p9i

Re: Secrecy, overclassification, and the the CIA’s hidden history

#20

Post by boomboomsubban »

no_opinions wrote: post #16

It's perfect timing this gets brought up because with all this news about Xinjiang, HK, East Ukraine, etc. we need to make sure China, Russia and so on also let us examine their transparency and protocols so we can give a rigorous, thorough checkup for human rights abuses. This being all about fairness and truth and we need to make sure everyone else can be held accountable to the same standards. I look forward to a…

So in your eyes, "probably better than China" is the optimum?
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