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Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

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Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#851

Post by diminoten »

solidsnack9000 wrote: post #847
diminoten wrote: post #822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's a right of a "well regulated militia", which was at the time run by the states. The militia wouldn't have been mentioned if it wasn't relevant, and it's only relevant if it's a limitation to the individual right to bear arms.

It is strange that you say that because the wording is “the right of the people to keep and bear arms” and not “the right of the militia...” and, again, not the right of the states. The militia certainly are relevant but how they are relevant is the question, not the answer. There are a lot of ways to argue about that, but the right of keeping and bearing arms is literally called the right “of the people” — it isn’t…

It's called a right of the people because back when it was written, the militias were made up of "the people", but not in an individual, "each person gets a say" kind of way.

This isn't the scholarly debate people make it out to be; there is a clear meaning, and it's been muddled over the past 30 years by special interests who have corrupted the original intent of the law.

The problems the second amendment was written to solve don't exist anymore, so the second amendment shouldn't exist anymore.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#852

Post by rumanator »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #247
unethical_ban wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very notion that people want free government and self-determination is a bad thing is why you're being downvoted on an American forum. There is not a lot of support for oppressive governments that commit genocide against religious minorities and put people in prison for political dissidence. You may be playing devil's advocate for the "party" but it comes too close to sounding like you're defending them.

The irony is of course to downvote to hell any dissenting comment in a debate about democratic values and censorship in China...

> The irony is of course to downvote to hell any dissenting comment in a debate about democratic values and censorship in China...

Please don't confuse PR posts conducted by China's 50 cent army lauding absurdities such as the virtues of a totalitarian regime as "dissenting comment".

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#853

Post by dang »

UIZealot wrote: post #358
mytailorisrich wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation of HK and the rights of the residents have not fundamentally changed since it was ceded to the British in 1842. In fact they have more democratic representation now than during most of their history. It's far from perfect but it's infinitely better than on the mainland. Nothing justifies "resorting to violence" in HK today. The violent actions along with anti-Chinese displays are in fact counterproducti…

[flagged]

The bias you're talking about is real, in my observation, but you can't counteract it by ranting and breaking the site guidelines, let alone baiting others into downvoting you. It's a direct consequence of HN's demographics, which are overwhelmingly Western, and there's no way to change it other than slowly and patiently, by adding good information.

Of course it's frustrating to encounter inflammatory comments that are based in ignorance. But if you respond like this, you feed those comments and give them greater credibility, while discrediting the very side you're trying to defend.

If you know more, then a better way is to share some of what you know so that others can learn. In any case, if you post here, please stick to the site rules regardless of how wrong or ignorant other commenters are or you feel they are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#854

Post by mieseratte »

tsegratis wrote: post #632
mieseratte wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A rubber bullet in lower body would have had enough stopping power. No, it wouldn't. I've sustained worse injuries than a rubber bullet and remained fighting. A bat to the head is a lethal assault. Using a firearm against such an assailant is completely justified. This has nothing to do with pro / anti CCP feelings. As far as I'm concerned the CCP should be eliminated. Your assertion is devoid of any reality.

Shooting to kill a 16yr old instead of getting beaten up is justified?? Not where I'm from -- The only way to end such confrontation is simplistically to love your enemy; or at least stop being quite so mean ;) Edit: I've never been shot or faced those injuries, but I've certainly been in worse situations than that police officer. So just on that basis that I'm judging his actions

It takes one blow from a bat to the head to die. Yours is asking someone to risk death death, not a beating.

Were it simple fists I’d wonder what lack of training these officers have. Weapons are another matter.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#855

Post by dang »

Clubber wrote: post #232
emptysongglass wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absurd. Any chance a rebellious citizenry had armed to the teeth evaporated with standing armies. Gun owners of the US cling to this ideal even while experiencing the worst spate of mass shootings in its history. There is no solution to this other than disarming.

[flagged]

Breaking the site guidelines like this will get you banned on HN regardless of how wrong another commenter is or you feel they are. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here? We've had to ask you this more than once before.

It can be helpful to remember that when you go way out of bounds like this, you discredit the position you're arguing for. Assuming you're right, that means you're discrediting the truth, which helps no one.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#856

Post by dang »

easytiger wrote: post #4

Obviously China is evil etc etc. But isn't it pretty obvious these people are physically attacking armed officers as they are retreating? And they are beating up and kicking another downed officer in the head? Whilst I might have sympathy for their cause the kid struck an armed officer with a weapon whilst he wielded a gun as his friends beat another armed officer. I have very little sympathy for anyone who makes suc…

> Obviously China is evil

Good grief. Would you please review the site guidelines and take care to edit such flamebait out of your posts to HN?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#857

Post by ptx »

systematical wrote: post #815

What is the protestors' end game here? Hasn't the extradition bill been killed? What do they need to end the protests and return to normal? I am genuinely curious.

The five demands:

1. Withdraw the bill - which finally did happen, after much stalling.

2. Independent investigation of the police intervention.

3. Not classifying the mostly peaceful protests as riots.

4. Release of the many arrested protesters. (Who could face very long prison sentences because of previous point.)

5. Democratic elections of the HK government - which seems wildly optimistic but is apparently in the HK constitution.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#858

Post by solidsnack9000 »

diminoten wrote: post #851
solidsnack9000 wrote: post #847

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is strange that you say that because the wording is “the right of the people to keep and bear arms” and not “the right of the militia...” and, again, not the right of the states. The militia certainly are relevant but how they are relevant is the question, not the answer. There are a lot of ways to argue about that, but the right of keeping and bearing arms is literally called the right “of the people” — it isn’t…

It's called a right of the people because back when it was written, the militias were made up of "the people", but not in an individual, "each person gets a say" kind of way. This isn't the scholarly debate people make it out to be; there is a clear meaning, and it's been muddled over the past 30 years by special interests who have corrupted the original intent of the law. The problems the second amendment was writte…

What were the problems the 2nd Amendment was written to solve, and what happened to them?

There isn’t anything scholarly or muddled about reading the “the right of the people” to reference a right held by people and not by states or the federal government.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#859

Post by mav3rick »

cwkoss wrote: post #772
ridewinter wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Owning a gun makes it 2-3x more likely someone in your family will die by a gun. So it makes you less safe, not more. https://slate.com/technology/2015/01/good-guy-with-a-gun-myt... And it definitely makes it less safe for the rest of us in society.

correlation != causality If someone has threatened you with a gun or you live in an area with increased gun violence, I would expect that greatly increases the chances that you'd want to acquire your own. This cohort would already be at a much higher risk of gun death before they owned a gun as well. There has never been a placebo controlled double blind study on gun ownership. Probably never will be because of ethic…

How about no one has guns ?

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#860

Post by slavik81 »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #703
jammygit wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Canadian, I’m always confused at how safe Americans think a gun makes them when in the woods. Guns are not a good defence against many wild animals. Get some bear spray, it is dramatically more effective and will not kill somebody as easily if you accidentally shoot a person in the dark! Point taken about the civil rights marches though

In New Jersey, bear spray is also illegal (or it was when I last lived there, 6 years ago). And this is in a state that acknowledges that there's a problem with bear overpopulation.

It appears an amendment to allow bear spray was proposed in 2017, but it hasn't really gone anywhere. https://www.billtrack50.com/BillDetail/842364
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