Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests • Hacker News Board

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#631

Post by koheripbal » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:00 PM UTC

program_whiz wrote: post #13

Sure, the kid was swinging at the officer, and I suppose that warrants the officer acting in self-defense. But another question is, what are the protesters supposed to do? The government has all the power, and can simply snuff out any resistence. If you just stand in the streets, they really don't care, they are going to take your freedom. Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator that just decided they were going to…

When we are judging individuals, it's important to judge with individual circumstances.

Was THIS protestor being violent? Was THIS police officer justified in firing?

In this case, there is one video that isn't getting much viewership which very clearly shows the protestor who was shot, chasing down and beating a police officer on the ground. The officer that fired was coming to the rescue when the protestor attacked him with a pipe and was shot.

Here is that video from BBC Chinese: https://twitter.com/bbcchinese/status/1179082367337713666

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#632

Post by tsegratis » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:01 PM UTC

mieseratte wrote: post #578

goblin89 wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> warrants the officer acting in self-defense I question the appropriateness of using a firearm with conventional lethal ammunition. A rubber bullet in lower body would have had enough stopping power. What happened looks like a blatant violation of any reasonable protocol law enforcement would be supposed to behave in accordance with under the circumstances.

> A rubber bullet in lower body would have had enough stopping power. No, it wouldn't. I've sustained worse injuries than a rubber bullet and remained fighting. A bat to the head is a lethal assault. Using a firearm against such an assailant is completely justified. This has nothing to do with pro / anti CCP feelings. As far as I'm concerned the CCP should be eliminated. Your assertion is devoid of any reality.

Shooting to kill a 16yr old instead of getting beaten up is justified??

Not where I'm from

--

The only way to end such confrontation is simplistically to love your enemy; or at least stop being quite so mean ;)

Edit: I've never been shot or faced those injuries, but I've certainly been in worse situations than that police officer. So just on that basis that I'm judging his actions

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#633

Post by diminoten » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:01 PM UTC

daenz wrote: post #517

diminoten wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you've thought this through; you won't be fighting soldiers in your little quest for rebellion, you'll be fighting your neighbor, because your neighbor thinks you're a fucking dumbass who he'd rather kill than reason with, because of how little you've respected honest discourse and conversation over a long period of time. To create an American insurgency would be to threaten everyone around you, and no…

>you'll be fighting your neighbor, because your neighbor thinks you're a fucking dumbass who he'd rather kill than reason with, because of how little you've respected honest discourse and conversation over a long period of time. I normally wouldn't respond to a post like this, but if you are thinking about hurting people that you disagree with, please seek out some help. This sentence honestly reads like a warning fl…

I feel bad for someone like you; needing to twist reality to get somewhere.

You realize everyone in this comment thread can see my comment, right above yours, right? Willfully misinterpreting what I've written to seem hostile when in reality it's you who suggested Americans should kill each other.

You must need a win, and we've all been there, but insurgency isn't what the 2nd Amendment was about, it never was, and lying won't change that fact.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#634

Post by takamh » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:02 PM UTC

netsharc wrote: post #542

SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you kill political dissidents and harvest their organs as part of an active genocide campaign, you lose any claim at behaving ethically. Ethics are measured by the actions you take that you'd rather not advertise.

Is it whataboutism to mention toddlers in cages here? It seems both governments have their gas chamber moments...

No it's not. This isn't Reddit where any average Joe thinks whataboutism is the answer to any evidence they don't agree with.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#635

Post by celdon25 » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:03 PM UTC

magduf wrote: post #434

josephdviviano wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact is that the dictator would still win. The rebellious citizenry would live a life of absolute misery, just as those in the middle east do. The 2nd amendment made a lot of sense when weaponry consisted of horses and rifles, not computer-guided missiles. If there was ever a true US dictator, the 2nd amendment would mostly be used by the oppressed to rob, attack, and oppress one another.

The 2nd amendment made sense when the enemy was a group of people across the ocean (the British), and other groups of people from across the ocean that they hired as mercenaries (the Hessians). Keeping the common people armed to be used as foot-soldiers in case of foreign invasion is not a bad idea if invasion is a serious concern; Switzerland still does this to this day. For protecting against your own government, i…

Imagine if the armed forces were equipped with smart weapons that could be disabled remotely for this very reason, and imagine if the government hired mercenaries to fight rebels instead of using its own armed forces?

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#636

Post by koheripbal » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:03 PM UTC

mattnewton wrote: post #625

program_whiz wrote: post #13

Sure, the kid was swinging at the officer, and I suppose that warrants the officer acting in self-defense. But another question is, what are the protesters supposed to do? The government has all the power, and can simply snuff out any resistence. If you just stand in the streets, they really don't care, they are going to take your freedom. Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator that just decided they were going to…

There is another angle that shows the cop charging in with a gun drawn before the shot. https://mobile.twitter.com/antielabhk/status/117897105163343... Also, further muddying things, it shows a moltov cocktail nearly miss a cop right afterwards, and a cop tackle and arrest someone who is on the ground trying to attend to the protestor who was shot. It looks like total chaos on both sides and is way more complicated t…

Here is a more complete video showing the exact protestor who got shot (with the blue shield) chasing down an officer and then beating him on the ground before attacking the rescuing officer and getting shot.

https://twitter.com/bbcchinese/status/1179082367337713666

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#637

Post by chrisco255 » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:03 PM UTC

undersuit wrote: post #605

chrisco255 wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in an ever-changing planet. The sea level has been rising since 20,000 years ago, during the last deep ice age. We're still technically in an ice age, we're just in a temporary warming period called an interglacial. The state of various species is always in flux. CO2 is fertilizing plant life on the earth. And satellite data confirms this: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fer... Since…

It peeves me to no end to you just brought out the whole climate change skeptics handbook so surreptitiously, why didn't you make your opinions known in your earlier comments?

Which fact have I mentioned that you think is incorrect?

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#638

Post by Retric » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:04 PM UTC

daenz wrote: post #338

josephdviviano wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact is that the dictator would still win. The rebellious citizenry would live a life of absolute misery, just as those in the middle east do. The 2nd amendment made a lot of sense when weaponry consisted of horses and rifles, not computer-guided missiles. If there was ever a true US dictator, the 2nd amendment would mostly be used by the oppressed to rob, attack, and oppress one another.

>The 2nd amendment made a lot of sense when weaponry consisted of horses and rifles, not computer-guided missiles. Let me make sure I understand your basic premise: the ability to defend yourself against a tyrannical dictatorship made sense until the government developed better technology, now it's pointless so just give up your guns? Aside from being completely contrary to the American spirit of defending yourself f…

Insurgents who don’t attack, don’t accomplish anything That’s why civilian insurgents have a horrible track record historically. They need to go on the offensive using poorly trained and poorly equipped troops.

A small armed resistance in the US would be incredibly ineffectual. At best preforming unless but inspiring attacks, but more realistically simply dying in droves.

You can look at hundreds of past insurrections for inspiration, but grassroots military might has almost nothing to do with their success.

PS: Just look back on the US Civil war which included actual defection of large chunks of the military etc. They started with territory and an actual military including trained officers, cannons, and warships yet still lost. Now picture what would have happened if the southern military had stayed with the north.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#639

Post by orthecreedence » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:04 PM UTC

whatitdobooboo wrote: post #557

orthecreedence wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elections are free, but the influence money has on our government after elections is where the problem lies. And even the "free elections" portion is being eroded since Citizens United. I'm not saying China is better, but the fraction of control the average US citizen can exercise over the government in the defined political process is much, much smaller than `1 / 330,000,000`...

Federal elections are not the only things that matter - state and local decisions have an impact. Obviously not perfect - even with the money affecting government we have the ABILITY to change that over some time period, and lobbying in some places can help. I am unsure about what exactly you are complaining about.

https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-cable...

> I am unsure about what exactly you are complaining about.

I wasn't. I was refuting common propaganda about the wonders of the United States. How can we fix any of our problems if we don't admit to ourselves that they exist?

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#640

Post by koheripbal » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 7:04 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #32

schuke wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m from the mainland and totally with HK’s cause. But I do think the violence is at least unnecessary if not detrimental to the movement. If tanks roll in, there’s no point using violence as they’ll be crushed. If they don’t, it seems to me there’s enough space for peaceful protests, which can be even more effectual in many ways. And the people of Hong Kong have shown an incredible amount of creativity in non-violen…

> the violence is at least unnecessary if not detrimental to the movement Judgement is complicated by documented evidence of undercover Hong Kong police dressing up as protesters and acting like belligerent idiots [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/22/world/hong-kong-police-pr...

Sure, but not in this particular case. The protestor that was shot was caught on the same video chasing down a police officer and beating him before getting shot.

https://twitter.com/bbcchinese/status/1179082367337713666