Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests • Hacker News Board

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#541

Post by mytailorisrich » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 5:46 PM UTC

tempguy9999 wrote: post #454

mytailorisrich wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the very least it does mean not suppressing opinions that you consider 'wrong'. This is not a discussion on a technical or scientific topic. This is not black and white. In fact, and since someone mentioned the American nationality of HN, the lack of subtlety and the need to see everything in black and white, right or wrong, is a common 'criticisim', so to speak, about Americans.

> At the very least it does mean not suppressing opinions that you consider 'wrong'. true! > This is not black and white. Potentially true, but I feel you're fogging the issue (something that happens a surprising amount of time in these discussions involving china). I distinguished between dissenting comments and bad comments. While that's not utterly B/W it's actually pretty clear. > In fact, and since someone menti…

The downside of freedom of speech is what one has to read, sometimes..

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#542

Post by netsharc » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 5:48 PM UTC

SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #500

jhedwards wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Present-day China essentially has no ethics Source? I lived in China and didn't ever feel like I was in a place without ethics. Different ethics, sure, but it really looks to me like you simply don't know or understand China. The Great Leap Forward had nothing to do with routing out values, it was about hyper-fast industrialization, and it failed. There are real problems with modern China, and, separately, with the…

If you kill political dissidents and harvest their organs as part of an active genocide campaign, you lose any claim at behaving ethically. Ethics are measured by the actions you take that you'd rather not advertise.

Is it whataboutism to mention toddlers in cages here? It seems both governments have their gas chamber moments...

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#543

Post by thegranderson » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 5:48 PM UTC

loquor wrote: post #349

This might sound alarmist, but do you think China is the biggest upcoming global problem after climate change? For two reasons: 1. China has a totalitarian ruling system. They intend to realize George Orwell's 1984. 2. Present-day China essentially has no ethics. Take the US in comparison. No matter how perverse the people in power become and even if they do messed up things, the US has some founding morals and princ…

Point #2 actually follows from Point #1. Hayek makes this argument very thoroughly in The Road to Serfdom:

Advancement within a totalitarian group or party depends largely on a willingness to do immoral things. The principle that the end justifies the means, which in individualist ethics is regarded as the denial of all morals, in collectivist ethics becomes necessarily the supreme rule. There is literally nothing which the consistent collectivist must not be prepared to do if it serves ‘the good of the whole’, because that is to him the only criterion of what ought to be done.

This quote is from the condensed edition, because my paper copy is at home: https://fee.org/resources/the-road-to-serfdom-condensed-edit...

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#544

Post by MS90 » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 5:48 PM UTC

jacobush wrote: post #449

MS90 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is strange to me. Firstly, because hitting a target with a pistol under high stress can be extremely difficult and legs are smaller than torso, and secondly, because "aiming for the legs" doesn't guarantee that it won't be lethal. If you take a shot to the femoral artery your chances of surviving aren't great. In fact, they're probably worse than taking a shot to the torso. There was a video going around a few y…

It is kind of strange, but nevertheless, that's how it is. They are supposed to use the maim option with discretion. And it has caused death several times. The police used to have smaller caliber pistols, and IIRC they put 14 rounds in someone leg, which didn't stop him from approaching the policemen doing the shooting. He still died though! This incident was one reason why they were later equipped with the more powe…

Jeez that's crazy. 14 rounds in a leg...how was that thing even still attached?

Do the police there have tasers? That could be a good tool for this type of thing.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#545

Post by undersuit » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 5:48 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #512

ryan_j_naughton wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The six mass extinction event that humanity is currently causing is going to affect billions of people for centuries to come. If we have systemic ecosystem collapses and 90% of species go extinct, there will be a profound effects. When crops fail and fresh, potable water is extremely constrained, authoritarianism will sweep the world at an even more accelerated pace and regional and world wars are likely. It will be…

If humanity is causing extinctions, it's due to habitat destruction and local pollution. Climate change (+0.38C from 1980-2010) is not the cause.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2016/06/first-mammal...

Do you have a response to this?

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#546

Post by josephdviviano » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 5:50 PM UTC

daenz wrote: post #338

josephdviviano wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact is that the dictator would still win. The rebellious citizenry would live a life of absolute misery, just as those in the middle east do. The 2nd amendment made a lot of sense when weaponry consisted of horses and rifles, not computer-guided missiles. If there was ever a true US dictator, the 2nd amendment would mostly be used by the oppressed to rob, attack, and oppress one another.

>The 2nd amendment made a lot of sense when weaponry consisted of horses and rifles, not computer-guided missiles. Let me make sure I understand your basic premise: the ability to defend yourself against a tyrannical dictatorship made sense until the government developed better technology, now it's pointless so just give up your guns? Aside from being completely contrary to the American spirit of defending yourself f…

Yes, I do think that a gap in weapons technology is meaningful.

I love numbers so let's talk about those using the Iraq war as an example.

Here's an estimate of the number of casualties in the Iraq war: https://www.iraqbodycount.org/

Roughly 200k civilians, 90k combatants.

According to wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_%E2%80%93... 5k western coalition forces died.

Even if these numbers are wildly inaccurate, I don't like those odds. Yes, it is difficult for the army to actually completely squash the insurgency, but there is a very messy grey zone between "winning" and "losing" where those in power relentlessly oppress the rest at relatively little cost to themselves.

I'm not saying, by the way, not to resist oppression, I am simply saying that the weapons that civilians cannot buy are very very scary, and it is probably wise to pick one's battles.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#547

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 5:50 PM UTC

philliphaydon wrote: post #219

program_whiz wrote: post #13

Sure, the kid was swinging at the officer, and I suppose that warrants the officer acting in self-defense. But another question is, what are the protesters supposed to do? The government has all the power, and can simply snuff out any resistence. If you just stand in the streets, they really don't care, they are going to take your freedom. Imagine if the US suddenly had a dictator that just decided they were going to…

The full video shows a officer on the ground being beaten with sticks. So it wasn’t just a kid swinging at the officer.

[deleted]

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#548

Post by bdowling » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 5:51 PM UTC

jhedwards wrote: post #518

danbolt wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s interesting to hear. Not trying to troll, but I’d love to hear about what you have found to be better about it.

I would say the biggest thing is the emphasis on public works. Wherever I went I was awed by the extent of things that were built just for the public. In the city where I lived there they built a new fancy bridge[0], and a massive park with an island and an art center[1], all for public use, and the city hosts massive public celebrations in these kinds of parks with extensive art installations, music performances etc…

> the radiologist _gave me the x-ray_ so I could bring it to more than one doctor if I wanted a second opinion.

In the US you can always get your medical records just by asking for them and you can always get a second opinion.

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#549

Post by CapricornNoble » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 5:52 PM UTC

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #283

josephdviviano wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact is that the dictator would still win. The rebellious citizenry would live a life of absolute misery, just as those in the middle east do. The 2nd amendment made a lot of sense when weaponry consisted of horses and rifles, not computer-guided missiles. If there was ever a true US dictator, the 2nd amendment would mostly be used by the oppressed to rob, attack, and oppress one another.

There's an interesting sci-fi dystopia in there, maybe. Everything up to light machine guns are available with no restrictions to anyone who wants to buy them. The government constantly talks up the sanctity of the right to bear arms, and the importance of being prepared at all times to defend innocents against . The dystopian military enforcers wear bulletproof powered armor, and private ownership of any weapon that…

>>>The dystopian military enforcers wear bulletproof powered armor, and private ownership of any weapon that can pierce that armor is a "grievous threat to public order," punishable by summary execution.

Which sounds like a deterrent.....until the insurgents use autonomous vehicle technology to pilot dump trucks full of fertilizer explosives into the enforcers.

https://hugokaaman.com/2017/02/14/the-history-and-adaptabili...

https://hugokaaman.com/2019/03/13/islamic-state-the-cross-pr...

https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Journals/Military-Review/Eng...

Re: Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

#550

Post by soperj » Tue, Oct 01, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #500

jhedwards wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Present-day China essentially has no ethics Source? I lived in China and didn't ever feel like I was in a place without ethics. Different ethics, sure, but it really looks to me like you simply don't know or understand China. The Great Leap Forward had nothing to do with routing out values, it was about hyper-fast industrialization, and it failed. There are real problems with modern China, and, separately, with the…

If you kill political dissidents and harvest their organs as part of an active genocide campaign, you lose any claim at behaving ethically. Ethics are measured by the actions you take that you'd rather not advertise.

Same as when you water-board people.