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Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

nytimes.com

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Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#151

Post by southerndrift »

benbristow wrote: post #103
Milner08 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H&M is much, much bigger than Forever 21. Forever 21 barely exists out side of North America, but H&M can be found everywhere. I mean everywhere. That may be a factor in how cheap they can be - The scale of the business.

H&M isn't cheap though. £25 for a pair of denim jeans where I can get 3 pairs for the same price in Primark.

Have you checked that those were denim jeans at Primark? Last time I checked all of their trousers were made in huge parts out of synthetic yarn.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#152

Post by benbristow »

southerndrift wrote: post #151
benbristow wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H&M isn't cheap though. £25 for a pair of denim jeans where I can get 3 pairs for the same price in Primark.

Have you checked that those were denim jeans at Primark? Last time I checked all of their trousers were made in huge parts out of synthetic yarn.

They advertise as genuine denim and I have no reason to believe they aren't.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#153

Post by spookthesunset »

kabacha wrote: post #12
BrentOzar wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess "fast fashion" means cheap sweatshop clothes. Anecdotal: my wife started calling it "Forever Toilet Paper" because the clothes disintegrated so quickly (as opposed to Zara and other fast fashion brands that, while fast to market, still put at least a little work into quality.)

Yes, who would have guessed that you get better quality by paying almost 10 times the price. Shirts at Zara are 60$ while forever21 like 10$. The problem with clothes manufacturing is that there's huge diminished returns - by paying 6 times more you don't get 6 times higher quality. Clothes technology is rather simple.

> Clothes technology is rather simple.

This feels like when somebody with no clue about development claims whatever you are working on is “simple”.

Something tells me clothes technology is far more complex than you claim.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#154

Post by squeaky-clean »

magduf wrote: post #134
calvinv wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can still buy quality products that last, you just have to pay more

Maybe, maybe not. The longer-lasting but expensive stuff might not be available in styles you like, for instance. So, for example, what good is a long-lasting shirt if it looks like something only your grandfather would wear?

The outfits from these places are almost always based on designs from more expensive fashion designers. I would be surprised if you couldn't find an equivalent or nicer made with first world labor and nicer materials. However I would not be surprised if it cost literally 50x more than an HM equivalent.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#155

Post by emj »

magduf wrote: post #135
HenryBemis wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most brands, especially the low priced ones has reduced the quality of the weaving and textiles, and that contributes to the fast fashion. Your sweater stretches a bit and you go buy a new one (or so they think). I remember I had bought some sweaters in the late 90s from Topman in the UK and they looked brand new 7 years later. Now, nothing from Topman is nearly as good. Now though I stick to brands such as COS, yes…

>Now though I stick to brands such as COS, yes they do cost x5 or X10 what H&M costs, but the difference in the clothe is evident. Yeah, but do they really last 5-10 times as long? If not, then from a purely economic point-of-view, they're not as good a deal. Spending 10x as much for something that lasts 2x as long really doesn't make economic sense: you can buy 2 of the cheaper thing and still spend 1/5 as much mone…

It's cheap "if your time is free", it is nice being able to depend on your clothes.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#156

Post by amyjess »

dehrmann wrote: post #63
proverbialbunny wrote: post #28

Back in '08-'09 Forever 21 was my favorite clothing store. They had styles there that fit well, looked good, used comfortable fabric, and was relatively cheap. Given how the economy was doing at the time, it gave Forever 21 an advantage: clothes 2-3x cheaper and clothes quite a bit more enjoyable to wear. But the fabric they used disintegrated on me, as woman's clothes tend to. (Men get thicker fabric, but at the exp…

> Men get thicker fabric, but at the expense of being less stretchy Not sure if it's the thickness or the fabric. Men's clothes are more likely to be cotton, women's have more synthetics to get stretchiness and better draping. Not sure what that does for durability, but it might explains issues in the dryer. I'd also be curious to know the staple length of the cotton used by fast fashion brands, but I'd bet it's shor…

When I transitioned to female, one thing I was told early on was that I shouldn't put my tops in the dryer anymore, because the dryer will wreck them. So nowadays I hang-dry all my tops.

And one interesting side-effect of my transition is that I actually like the feel of clothes now. Stretchy materials are so much more comfortable. I've never been able to stand the feel of cotton against my skin, and I'm so glad I get to wear clothes made of stretchy softness now. If I had my way, everything I wear would be made of rayon and spandex.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#157

Post by mlrtime »

subroutine wrote: post #79
noodlesUK wrote: post #60

I’ve seen a lot of people going on about fast fashion recently. I’m aware of lots of shops that are considered fast fashion, but which ones aren’t ? Where should I be going to buy more durable clothes that are made of nicer materials? I’m genuinely curious. I’d like to change my buying patterns (I’m really not that fashion conscious, so long as I can have some nice button ups and trousers I’ll be happy).

Winter is coming so if you're in the market for light-weight fleeces I'd recommend the Fjallraven Keb fleece ( http://bit.ly/2os5DNh ) and the Patagonia TechFace ( http://bit.ly/2osecHV ). REI stocks a number of more-or-less equally high-quality options ( http://bit.ly/2orY7C2 ) If you're bored of Dockers, I'd suggest grabbing a pair of ABCs from Lululemon, in brown ( http://bit.ly/2oAN4qr ) and black ( http://bit.ly…

If you like the ABC pant, try the Rhone commuter.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#158

Post by dehrmann »

amyjess wrote: post #156
dehrmann wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Men get thicker fabric, but at the expense of being less stretchy Not sure if it's the thickness or the fabric. Men's clothes are more likely to be cotton, women's have more synthetics to get stretchiness and better draping. Not sure what that does for durability, but it might explains issues in the dryer. I'd also be curious to know the staple length of the cotton used by fast fashion brands, but I'd bet it's shor…

When I transitioned to female, one thing I was told early on was that I shouldn't put my tops in the dryer anymore, because the dryer will wreck them. So nowadays I hang-dry all my tops. And one interesting side-effect of my transition is that I actually like the feel of clothes now. Stretchy materials are so much more comfortable. I've never been able to stand the feel of cotton against my skin, and I'm so glad I ge…

> If I had my way, everything I wear would be made of rayon and spandex.

I don't sleep or fly in man-made fibers for fire safety reasons. But I'm also fine with cotton, so your results may vary.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#159

Post by Blackthorn »

proverbialbunny wrote: post #28

Back in '08-'09 Forever 21 was my favorite clothing store. They had styles there that fit well, looked good, used comfortable fabric, and was relatively cheap. Given how the economy was doing at the time, it gave Forever 21 an advantage: clothes 2-3x cheaper and clothes quite a bit more enjoyable to wear. But the fabric they used disintegrated on me, as woman's clothes tend to. (Men get thicker fabric, but at the exp…

> their clothes are even cheaper (why?)

Slave labor. It's why my family won't shop there anymore.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#160

Post by proverbialbunny »

flanbiscuit wrote: post #104
proverbialbunny wrote: post #28

Back in '08-'09 Forever 21 was my favorite clothing store. They had styles there that fit well, looked good, used comfortable fabric, and was relatively cheap. Given how the economy was doing at the time, it gave Forever 21 an advantage: clothes 2-3x cheaper and clothes quite a bit more enjoyable to wear. But the fabric they used disintegrated on me, as woman's clothes tend to. (Men get thicker fabric, but at the exp…

Your experience with F21 is how I felt about H&M but going from 2001 to 2005. It was still a really new store in the US at the time and brought that European slim fit that worked best with my body type which so many American brands lacked at the time. I still pop into H&M once in a while but it's definitely not my main store anymore, I honestly don't know what is. I feel like H&M really popularized fast fashion more…

I had no idea H&M was older.

I think it's comes down to cuts at the end of the day. There is a style that fits a body type perfectly and the wearer loves it, but then that style disappears. Or at least that is how it works for me. The cuts that fit my proportions best tend to look and feel the best.

eg, skinny jeans made it hard for me to lift my legs for some of them and low cut / boot cut felt like they were falling down on me, but they weren't really falling down. But give me some jeggings and I'm a happy camper.

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