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Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

nytimes.com

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Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#41

Post by fiachamp »

Arnt wrote: post #15
Mathnerd314 wrote: post #4

The only other substantial discussions on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7861442 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8971215 I guess "fast fashion" means cheap sweatshop clothes. The bankruptcy is probably caused as much by rising standards of living in other countries as it is by the general shift to online ordering.

Fast fashion means three-week fashion cycles. That a fashion cycle is a single delivery, and the shop cannot order more if something is a great success. What you say sounds wrongish... In a fast fashion shop you can try on ten things this week and ten _other_ things next week, and rate of change makes online ordering look slow.

Dated a top F21 buyer for a few years and I can say that:

1) Prototype to street was way more than 3 weeks. More like 3 months (still faster than most fashion which makes buys 6 months ahead). Zara is the main large retailer that is actually about 1 month from concept to store.

2) The quality of their men's wear was pretty good for the price.

3) They worked their corporate employees to the bone and paid them 60-70% as much as other retailers for the same job. Girlfriend ended up doubling her pay upon accepting a role with another retailer. And on her last day, they still left her a pile of work that took until 5am to finish...Greedy and unprofessional.

4) Sad to see a whole lot of honest employees lose their jobs. Although the owners of F21 had a big fall coming given the amount of greed and indifference they expressed to employees https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-forever-21-factory-wo...

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#42

Post by hoschicz »

kalleboo wrote: post #6
Mathnerd314 wrote: post #4

The only other substantial discussions on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7861442 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8971215 I guess "fast fashion" means cheap sweatshop clothes. The bankruptcy is probably caused as much by rising standards of living in other countries as it is by the general shift to online ordering.

If that was the issue, it would be affecting Zara, H&M, Uniqlo etc as well. Zara is seeing record profits, H&Ms revenues are up but profits are down as they spent their money investing in online sales, Uniqlo profits are also up

Is Uniqlo fast fashion? Or cheap?

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#43

Post by kalleboo »

Milner08 wrote: post #36
proverbialbunny wrote: post #28

Back in '08-'09 Forever 21 was my favorite clothing store. They had styles there that fit well, looked good, used comfortable fabric, and was relatively cheap. Given how the economy was doing at the time, it gave Forever 21 an advantage: clothes 2-3x cheaper and clothes quite a bit more enjoyable to wear. But the fabric they used disintegrated on me, as woman's clothes tend to. (Men get thicker fabric, but at the exp…

H&M is much, much bigger than Forever 21. Forever 21 barely exists out side of North America, but H&M can be found everywhere. I mean everywhere. That may be a factor in how cheap they can be - The scale of the business.

Sounds like the article that part of their demise came from a botched fast international ramp-up. Perhaps they didn't have the expertise (or funds?) to scale up.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#44

Post by eyko »

cerebellum42 wrote: post #35
proverbialbunny wrote: post #28

Back in '08-'09 Forever 21 was my favorite clothing store. They had styles there that fit well, looked good, used comfortable fabric, and was relatively cheap. Given how the economy was doing at the time, it gave Forever 21 an advantage: clothes 2-3x cheaper and clothes quite a bit more enjoyable to wear. But the fabric they used disintegrated on me, as woman's clothes tend to. (Men get thicker fabric, but at the exp…

>Since then H&M has caught on like wildfire taking over the market Forever 21 once had. They do a lot of the same, but their clothes are even cheaper (why?) and in my current wardrobe my favorite clothes have come from H&M. I'm afraid the same fate will come to H&M that has come to Forever 21. Or maybe H&M will learn from F21's mistakes. Only time will tell. That's a rather weird characterization in my opinion... H&M…

Perhaps they're talking about the US market? In Europe, H&M has been big for as long as I can remember (since the late 1990s, which is when I started shopping for clothes).

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#45

Post by kalleboo »

hoschicz wrote: post #42
kalleboo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that was the issue, it would be affecting Zara, H&M, Uniqlo etc as well. Zara is seeing record profits, H&Ms revenues are up but profits are down as they spent their money investing in online sales, Uniqlo profits are also up

Is Uniqlo fast fashion? Or cheap?

They claim they aren't, but their parent company is called "Fast Retailing", and by the definition the GP is using "cheap sweatshop clothes" they match.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#46

Post by mgbmtl »

bloak wrote: post #40
coldtea wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've been trying to get 100% natural materials (cotton, wool, leather) and they seem more comfortable, less stuffy (especially for sleeping) but that might be a placebo. Natural materials are obviously more comfortable, more breathable, hypoallergenic, etc. These fabrics are literally the product of millions of years of evolution for putting on top of an animal's skin, and work well with its physiology.

Lots of people are allergic to wool. Perhaps as much as a quarter to a half of the population will have a mild allergic reaction if they have ordinary coarse wool rubbing against their skin for a long time, like wearing a woollen collar or scarf while trudging through the snow all day. Some people can recognise whether fabric contains wool just by touching it with their fingertips: an immediate itching sensation. So…

What about merino wool? It is said to be much less of an issue with allergies, and we see it everywhere these days.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#47

Post by jesterson »

atoav wrote: post #34
proverbialbunny wrote: post #28

Back in '08-'09 Forever 21 was my favorite clothing store. They had styles there that fit well, looked good, used comfortable fabric, and was relatively cheap. Given how the economy was doing at the time, it gave Forever 21 an advantage: clothes 2-3x cheaper and clothes quite a bit more enjoyable to wear. But the fabric they used disintegrated on me, as woman's clothes tend to. (Men get thicker fabric, but at the exp…

My girlfriend worked as a weaving technician and she said the H&M stuff got much worse over the past decade and subjectively it is true. The stuff literally disintegrates if you have it in the drier to often. Sadly enough this is also true for the men’s wear. I certainly try to spend a little more and get quality stuff. Second hand stores can also be great because you can find great quality stuff that feels better af…

I personally can see how H&M quality went down in last 10 years. Around 10 years ago it was decent quality for reasonable price, not it's just things I'd avoid even touching.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#48

Post by bgeeek »

proverbialbunny wrote: post #28

Back in '08-'09 Forever 21 was my favorite clothing store. They had styles there that fit well, looked good, used comfortable fabric, and was relatively cheap. Given how the economy was doing at the time, it gave Forever 21 an advantage: clothes 2-3x cheaper and clothes quite a bit more enjoyable to wear. But the fabric they used disintegrated on me, as woman's clothes tend to. (Men get thicker fabric, but at the exp…

Before H&M you need to talk about Gap. Their local store to me in the UK is almost always permanently empty. I still use them to buy basics, but always shop online. Superdry, the same - it's always empty, but I'm not a fan of big logos on clothes so wouldn't buy Superdry.

Uniqlo hasn't yet made the same mistake of opening stores almost everywhere. You can shop online with them, but there aren't many stores outside of the capital in the UK.

In the UK it really does look like shops on the high street are struggling with the physical costs as opposed to shopping online.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#49

Post by HenryBemis »

atoav wrote: post #34
proverbialbunny wrote: post #28

Back in '08-'09 Forever 21 was my favorite clothing store. They had styles there that fit well, looked good, used comfortable fabric, and was relatively cheap. Given how the economy was doing at the time, it gave Forever 21 an advantage: clothes 2-3x cheaper and clothes quite a bit more enjoyable to wear. But the fabric they used disintegrated on me, as woman's clothes tend to. (Men get thicker fabric, but at the exp…

My girlfriend worked as a weaving technician and she said the H&M stuff got much worse over the past decade and subjectively it is true. The stuff literally disintegrates if you have it in the drier to often. Sadly enough this is also true for the men’s wear. I certainly try to spend a little more and get quality stuff. Second hand stores can also be great because you can find great quality stuff that feels better af…

Most brands, especially the low priced ones has reduced the quality of the weaving and textiles, and that contributes to the fast fashion. Your sweater stretches a bit and you go buy a new one (or so they think). I remember I had bought some sweaters in the late 90s from Topman in the UK and they looked brand new 7 years later. Now, nothing from Topman is nearly as good.

Now though I stick to brands such as COS, yes they do cost x5 or X10 what H&M costs, but the difference in the clothe is evident.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#50

Post by magicalhippo »

atoav wrote: post #34
proverbialbunny wrote: post #28

Back in '08-'09 Forever 21 was my favorite clothing store. They had styles there that fit well, looked good, used comfortable fabric, and was relatively cheap. Given how the economy was doing at the time, it gave Forever 21 an advantage: clothes 2-3x cheaper and clothes quite a bit more enjoyable to wear. But the fabric they used disintegrated on me, as woman's clothes tend to. (Men get thicker fabric, but at the exp…

My girlfriend worked as a weaving technician and she said the H&M stuff got much worse over the past decade and subjectively it is true. The stuff literally disintegrates if you have it in the drier to often. Sadly enough this is also true for the men’s wear. I certainly try to spend a little more and get quality stuff. Second hand stores can also be great because you can find great quality stuff that feels better af…

Well apparently women are supposed to only wear a piece of clothing once or twice, no? So they optimize for price, so you can buy more pieces of clothing so you have something to wear, rather than longevity which "nobody" cares about.

That said, it's not just the clothes for women. I tried buying some jeans at H&M, twice. Both times I wore a hole in them in less than a month. I'm not doing anything special, just a regular office guy. I usually buy Diesel jeans and they last at least a couple of years each.

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