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Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

nytimes.com

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Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#31

Post by benj111 »

HunOL wrote: post #20
Angostura wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hope that the reason for failure was more about this: > Forever 21’s struggles have provoked questions around the appeal of fast fashion more broadly. The industry has faced backlash surrounding the environmental impact of quickly disposable clothes and concerns about worker safety ... > Younger shoppers have increasingly turned to consigned goods and brands that claim sustainability as a value... But I would…

> goods and brands that claim sustainability as a value... Claiming sustainability and being sustainable are two different things. For instance "C&A" is making a lot of things from "Bio Cotton", but you if search for Bio Cotton on their website https://www.c-and-a.com/uk/en/corporate/company/sustainabili... you find this: "BIO COTTON is all of that. It guarantees you that no genetically modified seeds are used, it su…

Off topic but I remember C&A from back in the day. (edit: They pulled out of the UK market in 2000)

I don't know why the address has UK in it, because the country select doesn't include UK, and the webshop is in Euros.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#32

Post by coldtea »

GrayTextIsTruth wrote: post #29

how much do cheap plastic clothes (polyester, spandex, elastic) contribute to the micro-plastics epidemic I saw on HN recently? I've been trying to get 100% natural materials (cotton, wool, leather) and they seem more comfortable, less stuffy (especially for sleeping) but that might be a placebo.

>I've been trying to get 100% natural materials (cotton, wool, leather) and they seem more comfortable, less stuffy (especially for sleeping) but that might be a placebo.

Natural materials are obviously more comfortable, more breathable, hypoallergenic, etc. These fabrics are literally the product of millions of years of evolution for putting on top of an animal's skin, and work well with its physiology.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#34

Post by atoav »

proverbialbunny wrote: post #28

Back in '08-'09 Forever 21 was my favorite clothing store. They had styles there that fit well, looked good, used comfortable fabric, and was relatively cheap. Given how the economy was doing at the time, it gave Forever 21 an advantage: clothes 2-3x cheaper and clothes quite a bit more enjoyable to wear. But the fabric they used disintegrated on me, as woman's clothes tend to. (Men get thicker fabric, but at the exp…

My girlfriend worked as a weaving technician and she said the H&M stuff got much worse over the past decade and subjectively it is true. The stuff literally disintegrates if you have it in the drier to often. Sadly enough this is also true for the men’s wear.

I certainly try to spend a little more and get quality stuff. Second hand stores can also be great because you can find great quality stuff that feels better after the 20th wash than the H&M stuff feels fresh out of the store.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#35

Post by cerebellum42 »

proverbialbunny wrote: post #28

Back in '08-'09 Forever 21 was my favorite clothing store. They had styles there that fit well, looked good, used comfortable fabric, and was relatively cheap. Given how the economy was doing at the time, it gave Forever 21 an advantage: clothes 2-3x cheaper and clothes quite a bit more enjoyable to wear. But the fabric they used disintegrated on me, as woman's clothes tend to. (Men get thicker fabric, but at the exp…

>Since then H&M has caught on like wildfire taking over the market Forever 21 once had. They do a lot of the same, but their clothes are even cheaper (why?) and in my current wardrobe my favorite clothes have come from H&M. I'm afraid the same fate will come to H&M that has come to Forever 21. Or maybe H&M will learn from F21's mistakes. Only time will tell.

That's a rather weird characterization in my opinion... H&M stores in roughly their current form have been around a lot longer than Forever 21. H&M is also 4-5 times the size of Forever 21 by revenue.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#36

Post by Milner08 »

proverbialbunny wrote: post #28

Back in '08-'09 Forever 21 was my favorite clothing store. They had styles there that fit well, looked good, used comfortable fabric, and was relatively cheap. Given how the economy was doing at the time, it gave Forever 21 an advantage: clothes 2-3x cheaper and clothes quite a bit more enjoyable to wear. But the fabric they used disintegrated on me, as woman's clothes tend to. (Men get thicker fabric, but at the exp…

H&M is much, much bigger than Forever 21. Forever 21 barely exists out side of North America, but H&M can be found everywhere. I mean everywhere. That may be a factor in how cheap they can be - The scale of the business.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#37

Post by ehnto »

HunOL wrote: post #20
Angostura wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hope that the reason for failure was more about this: > Forever 21’s struggles have provoked questions around the appeal of fast fashion more broadly. The industry has faced backlash surrounding the environmental impact of quickly disposable clothes and concerns about worker safety ... > Younger shoppers have increasingly turned to consigned goods and brands that claim sustainability as a value... But I would…

> goods and brands that claim sustainability as a value... Claiming sustainability and being sustainable are two different things. For instance "C&A" is making a lot of things from "Bio Cotton", but you if search for Bio Cotton on their website https://www.c-and-a.com/uk/en/corporate/company/sustainabili... you find this: "BIO COTTON is all of that. It guarantees you that no genetically modified seeds are used, it su…

All cotton is bio cotton, isn't it? It's not the sustainability or GMO status of cotton that concerns me about fast fashion but the plastic fibres flaking away into the general environment.

I think that we have no choice but to seek sustainability from farming, as plastic is not sustainable from any angle. The alternatives to petroleum plastics are organic, so farming again.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#38

Post by unwind »

coldtea wrote: post #32
GrayTextIsTruth wrote: post #29

how much do cheap plastic clothes (polyester, spandex, elastic) contribute to the micro-plastics epidemic I saw on HN recently? I've been trying to get 100% natural materials (cotton, wool, leather) and they seem more comfortable, less stuffy (especially for sleeping) but that might be a placebo.

> I've been trying to get 100% natural materials (cotton, wool, leather) and they seem more comfortable, less stuffy (especially for sleeping) but that might be a placebo. Natural materials are obviously more comfortable, more breathable, hypoallergenic, etc. These fabrics are literally the product of millions of years of evolution for putting on top of an animal's skin, and work well with its physiology.

Uh, pretty sure cotton didn't evolve to fix that for animals.

There's of course significant processing applied to those materials before they're suitable as clothing (cotton obviously needs to be picked, it's not on an animal to begin with; leather needs to be tanned).

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#39

Post by furyg3 »

ehnto wrote: post #30
GrayTextIsTruth wrote: post #29

how much do cheap plastic clothes (polyester, spandex, elastic) contribute to the micro-plastics epidemic I saw on HN recently? I've been trying to get 100% natural materials (cotton, wool, leather) and they seem more comfortable, less stuffy (especially for sleeping) but that might be a placebo.

From what I have been reading, quite a bit. The plastic lint ends up in the water ecosystem pretty quickly compared to other plastics through washing and drying, and they're not obvious being so small. I imagine most people don't think about their plastic fabrics being plastic at all, they really don't feel like plastic. So when you see lint balls or bits of lint floating about the house you don't think to yourself "…

Somehow in most of the apartments I've lived the toilet was always really close to the dryer. So for many many years I would just throw everything from the lint trap into the toilet to be flushed next time I use the restroom. Without thinking about it, it seemed like 'organic' material. Probably most of it was (I tend to use the dryer mostly for towels and bedding, which is mostly cotton).

One morning it occurred to me that I've been flushing microplastics away, which is really terrible...

Catching particles coming from the wash seems like a pretty tough problem. Even if the washing machine could somehow catch these, I can't see consumers (and thus manufacturers) jumping at the chance to clean out dirty soapy goop from a washing machine filter... which I imagine will resemble cleaning out a shower drain trap pretty quickly.

Re: Forever 21, Which Helped Popularize Fast Fashion, to File for Bankruptcy

#40

Post by bloak »

coldtea wrote: post #32
GrayTextIsTruth wrote: post #29

how much do cheap plastic clothes (polyester, spandex, elastic) contribute to the micro-plastics epidemic I saw on HN recently? I've been trying to get 100% natural materials (cotton, wool, leather) and they seem more comfortable, less stuffy (especially for sleeping) but that might be a placebo.

> I've been trying to get 100% natural materials (cotton, wool, leather) and they seem more comfortable, less stuffy (especially for sleeping) but that might be a placebo. Natural materials are obviously more comfortable, more breathable, hypoallergenic, etc. These fabrics are literally the product of millions of years of evolution for putting on top of an animal's skin, and work well with its physiology.

Lots of people are allergic to wool. Perhaps as much as a quarter to a half of the population will have a mild allergic reaction if they have ordinary coarse wool rubbing against their skin for a long time, like wearing a woollen collar or scarf while trudging through the snow all day. Some people can recognise whether fabric contains wool just by touching it with their fingertips: an immediate itching sensation. So perhaps it evolved for use by sheep, not humans?
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