A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies • Hacker News Board

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#131

Post by NeedMoreTea » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #98

Avamander wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is "persistence" the correct characteristic based on which to select who gets to moderate? I'm also well aware of the thresholds, I don't think one user should just have only one integer value based on which one gets all the privileges.

Because someone who is active in a community and has high confidence by the community (= high points), it is more likely that this person is capable of moderating this community better than someone who is not familiar with the subjects of the community.

That's the problem though, isn't it?

> high confidence by the community = high points

High confidence at answering questions. We don't get to vote on moderation, closed as dupe, deletion etc. Karma is only a weak indicator of being a good moderator. Sure they may know the subject well, but that's not reflective of a good and empathetic moderator.

Frustration with this is one of the main reasons I just stopped logging in and participating. SE is now static web search results.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#132

Post by magicalhippo » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #80

dtech wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XY Problem is very real though, especially among beginners, which by its nature SO has a lot of.

The solution is not to just close the questions though.

Indeed.

Typically I answer[1] these kind of questions by answering what I think is the solution to X, and then I'll follow up with "but if you still really want to do Y" and my attempt at solution for that.

If it's not very clear what they're trying to do, I will just answer Y but follow up with asking what they're really trying to do and that there might be a better way than Y because...

[1]: on IRC or forums, not on SO

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#133

Post by Wowfunhappy » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 2:10 PM UTC

I am legitimately curious—and concerned—about the relicensing of answers. It really seems as though they shouldn't be able to do that. And if they can, can they also change the license to "all rights reserved by SE"?

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#134

Post by vorpalhex » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 2:13 PM UTC

falsedan wrote: post #96

johannes1234321 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Volunteering is a common concept in many communities. We have volunteer fire fighters, volunteer paramedics, volunteer librarians, volunteer social worker, volunteer ... Some of these in fields, and sometimes even in close alignment to payed people. In the context of SO there is a community producing Creative Commons (while there was recently a license change making the company less trustworthy) contents to help peop…

> We have volunteer fire fighters, volunteer paramedics, volunteer librarians, volunteer social workers None of these positions are with a private business operating for profit.

SE does not profit from its community websites (eg the ones we all read) aside from a vague "getting traffic to its enterprise product" which is probably not worth what they spend on hosting.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#135

Post by commandlinefan » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 2:15 PM UTC

rusk wrote: post #41

MrStonedOne wrote: post #29

This is natural selection at work. Stack Exchange has become a frustrating site to use. "Closed as duplicate: different and unrelated question" reopen further explaining the question and how its not related "Closed as duplicate: the first question that was immediately closed with no replies" OR! Google around, find SE link on issue, everybody is arguing about why the user wants to do it that why, convinces them to do…

Ah yes, the good old "X/Y Problem" [0] Doesn't matter if Y is non-negotiable, or if I've purposely constrained Y, to get a specific answer for a specific technology. How infuriating for a "Questions and Answers" site, to be told when you're asking a question, that the question you're asking is wrong, and that "you should instead have asked ..." I swear to god, the SO mods are the dumbest, most priggish, humourless be…

> the dumbest, most priggish, humourless beaureucrats

Clearly you've never been to reddit...

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#136

Post by Pfhreak » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 2:15 PM UTC

Reading between the lines, it looks like a queer mod felt unsupported by SE over a long period of time, and SE eventually decided to make a code of conduct change. These mods disagreed with that change (some using language like "thought crime") which precipitated their resignations?

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#137

Post by apostacy » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 2:16 PM UTC

MrStonedOne wrote: post #29

This is natural selection at work. Stack Exchange has become a frustrating site to use. "Closed as duplicate: different and unrelated question" reopen further explaining the question and how its not related "Closed as duplicate: the first question that was immediately closed with no replies" OR! Google around, find SE link on issue, everybody is arguing about why the user wants to do it that why, convinces them to do…

One of the most frustrating things is when SE modes decide to deputize themselves on behalf of third parties, and try to enforce the laws of other countries or the intellectual property rights of decades old software.

I've seen questions about how to bypass DRM on 20 year old software deleted. And why do they assume that the DMCA applies in other countries? What if you are asking how to build an unauthorized media player in a market where it is not for sale anyway?

I remember in like 2011, someone asked how to virtualize OSX Tiger on a non Apple host because they needed to use this proprietary software for their business. The top answer was that it was 100% impossible to do this (not true) and that they were a horrible human being for even considering it because it violated Apple's TOS. I've also seen this happen when people want to do things like retrieve music that they paid for off of their devices.

I have heard that in Saudi Arabia husbands have a legal right to monitor their wives communications. So if a Saudi woman posted on SE asking how to remove a keylogger her husband installed, would it be deleted for violating local law?

Or what if a Saudi woman simply wanted help cracking the Google authorized wife-tracking app[1], so she could flee? That would be violating local laws, and upsetting Google.

[1]: https://www.npr.org/2019/02/12/693994447/apple-google-critic...

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#138

Post by jmngomes » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

cujo wrote: post #72

MrStonedOne wrote: post #29

This is natural selection at work. Stack Exchange has become a frustrating site to use. "Closed as duplicate: different and unrelated question" reopen further explaining the question and how its not related "Closed as duplicate: the first question that was immediately closed with no replies" OR! Google around, find SE link on issue, everybody is arguing about why the user wants to do it that why, convinces them to do…

Funny thing, I frequent a few of the SE sites, and the only ones that have this problem are the tech ones.

Could it be that the problem is just a lot more visible on those specific sites, because they have a lot more users than any of the others?

https://stackexchange.com/sites?view=list#traffic

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#139

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

MrStonedOne wrote: post #29

This is natural selection at work. Stack Exchange has become a frustrating site to use. "Closed as duplicate: different and unrelated question" reopen further explaining the question and how its not related "Closed as duplicate: the first question that was immediately closed with no replies" OR! Google around, find SE link on issue, everybody is arguing about why the user wants to do it that why, convinces them to do…

[deleted]

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#140

Post by magicalhippo » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 2:19 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #127

wokwokwok wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Asking the poster about X, and offering a solution Y' which will solve X should at least be attempted. No! Goodness me, why is this so difficult? It should not be attempted. That’s an arbitrary expression of your opinion on the poster. If the question can’t be solved in the way it’s asked let it die gracefully with a “no you can’t do it that why” and suck up the down votes when someone comes along and proves yes yo…

>I know it’s frustrating for you, but asking a question _isn’t about you_. Well, if StackOveflow/StackExchange is still following Jeff Atwood's philosophy, asking a question isn't necessarily about the questioner either. The question & the answer is for the community more than questioner.[0] Understandably, most question askers see Stack Overflow as a "Siri/Alexa" type of resource to ask a question. E.g. If I ask Sir…

> The question & the answer is for the community more than questioner.

Part of the confusion might be that they're very unclear about this point. For example, on the front page right now the following is prominently displayed:

> Stack Overflow is an open community for anyone that codes. We help you get answers to your toughest coding questions, share knowledge with your coworkers in private, and find your next dream job.

Emphasis mine. Clearly that is something very different from building a "Q&A wiki" which you allude to.

I guess the impedance mismatch comes from the fact that the route they chose to get to their "Q&A wiki" goal was to curate questions from individuals, rather than to for example extract questions and answers from a more regular help forum.

So individuals go on SO and think the site is about helping them, and then get confused about what happens next.