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A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

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Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#71

Post by LeoNatan25 »

Avamander wrote: post #67
LeoNatan25 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what "power" you think I have. I rarely vote to close questions. But I do flag, and do down-vote. Isn't that as democratic as it gets?

> Isn't that as democratic as it gets? Why should you be able to flag for close, downvote and get to delete all at once? It's basically all the power there is, especially bad if you own a tag badge. We have enough people to separate those tasks, it'd definitely reduce one person's ability to do harm.

Everyone is able to flag for close, delete or downvote (above a very small point requirement—125, I thing). I cannot delete questions or answers on any whim. I can vote to to delete after a certain threshold of low-score passes. I don't see what is so problematic with this, as any user with a little persistence can reach this goal.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#72

Post by cujo »

MrStonedOne wrote: post #29

This is natural selection at work. Stack Exchange has become a frustrating site to use. "Closed as duplicate: different and unrelated question" reopen further explaining the question and how its not related "Closed as duplicate: the first question that was immediately closed with no replies" OR! Google around, find SE link on issue, everybody is arguing about why the user wants to do it that why, convinces them to do…

Funny thing, I frequent a few of the SE sites, and the only ones that have this problem are the tech ones.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#73

Post by ForHackernews »

Jun8 wrote: post #56

My understanding is that the train of events that resulted in mod Monica Cellio’s demodding from SE started with a gender-related complaint tweet ( https://medium.com/@cellio/dear-stack-overflow-we-need-to-ta... ). Companies are now very sensitive to this pattern, esp. true for SE due to the ongoing changes there.

> esp. true for SE due to the ongoing changes there

For the benefit of those of us who don't closely follow Stack Overflow meta-drama, can you explain what this is alluding to?

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#74

Post by Avamander »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #71
Avamander wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't that as democratic as it gets? Why should you be able to flag for close, downvote and get to delete all at once? It's basically all the power there is, especially bad if you own a tag badge. We have enough people to separate those tasks, it'd definitely reduce one person's ability to do harm.

Everyone is able to flag for close, delete or downvote (above a very small point requirement—125, I thing). I cannot delete questions or answers on any whim. I can vote to to delete after a certain threshold of low-score passes. I don't see what is so problematic with this, as any user with a little persistence can reach this goal.

How is "persistence" the correct characteristic based on which to select who gets to moderate? I'm also well aware of the thresholds, I don't think one user should just have only one integer value based on which one gets all the privileges.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#75

Post by pjc50 »

MrStonedOne wrote: post #43
LeoNatan25 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are describing is human nature. The same things happen on Quora and other Q&A sites. As long as human nature doesn't change, the same patterns will emerge.

As long as there isn't a push to fix it and prevent it and stop it, and coach around it, the issue doesn't get solved. That sounds like defeatist attitude. Stack Exchange could add a rule forbidding asking why or adding answers that have caveats the question asker already said in op were unacceptable and deal with part of the issue They could also add a system to review, rate, and appeal moderator actions, and penali…

> Stack Exchange could add a rule forbidding asking why

.. that would make the outcome significantly more frustrating, as the only way to discover the real requirements is then to post an answer which the questioner regards as wrong.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#76

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

raxxorrax wrote: post #23

I see a lot of people arguing about mods being too strict. I abhor the recent trend of content decontamination like many others do. But for Q&A sites like SE, I think it is a necessity to stay on topic. Yes, some moderators might have been too eager in some cases, happened to me too. But since these people are all volunteers, I think they should get some support from the community. I mean I might have to look for ano…

IME business cultures polarise along the politics/product axis.

When politics - i.e. status games and power plays - are prioritised over product quality, bad things happen.

Unfortunately SE seems to have chosen the former over the latter. I have suspicions that amateur modding is part of the problem.

I hope SE doesn't shut down, because currently it's still helpful in spite of itself - although probably more for experienced users than absolute beginners.

But I think a lot of people would like to see a saner and more concise alternative with a more generous and less confrontational culture.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#77

Post by Avamander »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #68
Avamander wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "ban high-score users who do not like my low-quality questions" Thanks for telling me you're part of the problem. You're not nearly as infallible in your judgement about what's a "bad question", it's plain and simple hubris most high-ranks have. The system should not allow such consolidation of power, there's a very good reason most democratic countries have separated the three powers.

Also, I don't feel like apologizing for having a high score. I've earned it with hard work over many years. I understand it is more difficult now, because most of the good questions have been asked, and the vast majority of new questions are a repeat, but that does not mean I should feel guilty for having been able to, in my niche sector, to amass scores by helping people in their coding endeavors.

Who said you have to feel guilty? It's just that you belong in a group of people that basically oppress other users, often unjustifiedly so.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#78

Post by wokwokwok »

ceejayoz wrote: post #50
rusk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the good old "X/Y Problem" [0] Doesn't matter if Y is non-negotiable, or if I've purposely constrained Y, to get a specific answer for a specific technology. How infuriating for a "Questions and Answers" site, to be told when you're asking a question, that the question you're asking is wrong, and that "you should instead have asked ..." I swear to god, the SO mods are the dumbest, most priggish, humourless be…

About 90% of the time it is an XY problem, though. A couple clarifying questions and it turns out the OP really needed something much simpler. For example, people who insist they can’t use a Laravel package because of “performance”, but it turns out they just don’t know how the composer autoloader works.

No... Just answer the question.

You’re not there to babysit the question asker or convince them to change their approach/hair style/choice of library.

I know it’s frustrating to see people doing something wrong, or that you don’t agree with, but you know what you can do?

Just... don’t get involved if you can’t answer the actual question that was asked, and if it’s a bad question, let it die a natural death.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#79

Post by commentzorro »

latk wrote: post #17
jmkni wrote: post #5

Spotted this on the hot question list, totally out of the loop on the latest SE drama, can somebody fill me in?

There is a perpetual tension between those who want SE to be helping everyone, and those who want to curate a helpful resource. People involved with community moderation aspects tend to fall into the latter group. For the last half decade or so SE has progressively abandoned this latter group, leading to a lot of pent-up frustration. Some changes SE has made are sensible (e.g. striving to be more welcoming and more i…

>> There is a perpetual tension between those who want SE to be helping everyone, and those who want to curate a helpful resource.

I never understood this. Why have one or the other instead of both. All questions funnel in on a "everyone" area for a particular type of question. (Junior people can moderate those to gain experience if the senior mods don't want to. This will give them experience, insight, etc.) Even the most repetitive and/or superficial homework question can be answered and not closed as duplicate. (Or at least pointed to the duplicates but not closed until the questioner has accepted a duplicate as an acceptable answer.)

When "good quality" appear or new/unique questions and answers appear they can be refined and moved over into a curated persistent section for future reference. The senior mods can take over at this point to make sure the reference Q&A are as they like.

I always hated that "closed as duplicate" reply especially if I'd already seen the supposed duplicates and didn't think they applied. This approach would allow those to be answered by new people or ignored if nobody wanted to answer.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#80

Post by Aeolun »

dtech wrote: post #64
rusk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the good old "X/Y Problem" [0] Doesn't matter if Y is non-negotiable, or if I've purposely constrained Y, to get a specific answer for a specific technology. How infuriating for a "Questions and Answers" site, to be told when you're asking a question, that the question you're asking is wrong, and that "you should instead have asked ..." I swear to god, the SO mods are the dumbest, most priggish, humourless be…

XY Problem is very real though, especially among beginners, which by its nature SO has a lot of.

The solution is not to just close the questions though.
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