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A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

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Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#91

Post by wool_gather »

latk wrote: post #17
jmkni wrote: post #5

Spotted this on the hot question list, totally out of the loop on the latest SE drama, can somebody fill me in?

There is a perpetual tension between those who want SE to be helping everyone, and those who want to curate a helpful resource. People involved with community moderation aspects tend to fall into the latter group. For the last half decade or so SE has progressively abandoned this latter group, leading to a lot of pent-up frustration. Some changes SE has made are sensible (e.g. striving to be more welcoming and more i…

Spot on. Monica is a fantastic person and was a huge asset to SE. I've continually expected to hear that SE had hired Monica as a Community Manager, as they have over the years done with other well-respected mods.

This is a "You maniacs; you blew it up!" moment. What just happened??

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#92

Post by dirkt »

wokwokwok wrote: post #78
ceejayoz wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 90% of the time it is an XY problem, though. A couple clarifying questions and it turns out the OP really needed something much simpler. For example, people who insist they can’t use a Laravel package because of “performance”, but it turns out they just don’t know how the composer autoloader works.

No... Just answer the question. You’re not there to babysit the question asker or convince them to change their approach/hair style/choice of library. I know it’s frustrating to see people doing something wrong, or that you don’t agree with, but you know what you can do? Just... don’t get involved if you can’t answer the actual question that was asked, and if it’s a bad question, let it die a natural death.

If Y actually has an answer - but often enough Y is so convoluted that it just won't work.

Asking the poster about X, and offering a solution Y' which will solve X should at least be attempted.

If the poster insists on Y, then he'll also have to accept the answer "sorry, you can't do it that way, for the following reasons".

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#93

Post by dandare »

raxxorrax wrote: post #23

I see a lot of people arguing about mods being too strict. I abhor the recent trend of content decontamination like many others do. But for Q&A sites like SE, I think it is a necessity to stay on topic. Yes, some moderators might have been too eager in some cases, happened to me too. But since these people are all volunteers, I think they should get some support from the community. I mean I might have to look for ano…

> necessity to stay on topic

Try a little exercise: ask a computer literate person not familiar with SE to find out what questions are on-topic on https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#94

Post by bane »

rusk wrote: post #41
MrStonedOne wrote: post #29

This is natural selection at work. Stack Exchange has become a frustrating site to use. "Closed as duplicate: different and unrelated question" reopen further explaining the question and how its not related "Closed as duplicate: the first question that was immediately closed with no replies" OR! Google around, find SE link on issue, everybody is arguing about why the user wants to do it that why, convinces them to do…

Ah yes, the good old "X/Y Problem" [0] Doesn't matter if Y is non-negotiable, or if I've purposely constrained Y, to get a specific answer for a specific technology. How infuriating for a "Questions and Answers" site, to be told when you're asking a question, that the question you're asking is wrong, and that "you should instead have asked ..." I swear to god, the SO mods are the dumbest, most priggish, humourless be…

You see this phenomenon here on HN all the time. Find anybody asking a question or help to figure something out and the first couple answers will likely be "why are you doing it that way?", followed by almost completely useless advice to do something else entirely a completely different way.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#95

Post by LeoNatan25 »

Avamander wrote: post #77
LeoNatan25 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, I don't feel like apologizing for having a high score. I've earned it with hard work over many years. I understand it is more difficult now, because most of the good questions have been asked, and the vast majority of new questions are a repeat, but that does not mean I should feel guilty for having been able to, in my niche sector, to amass scores by helping people in their coding endeavors.

Who said you have to feel guilty? It's just that you belong in a group of people that basically oppress other users, often unjustifiedly so.

Who am I oppressing exactly? By downvoting, am I oppressing the asking person? That’s ridiculous. Why does everyone insist on being so weak-minded?

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#96

Post by falsedan »

johannes1234321 wrote: post #27
ianai wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that acceptable? People need to be paid for working.

Volunteering is a common concept in many communities. We have volunteer fire fighters, volunteer paramedics, volunteer librarians, volunteer social worker, volunteer ... Some of these in fields, and sometimes even in close alignment to payed people. In the context of SO there is a community producing Creative Commons (while there was recently a license change making the company less trustworthy) contents to help peop…

> We have volunteer fire fighters, volunteer paramedics, volunteer librarians, volunteer social workers

None of these positions are with a private business operating for profit.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#97

Post by mellosouls »

hos234 wrote: post #32
scarejunba wrote: post #11

Every one of these community groups inevitably has some sort of internal political strife of some sort. I've never found any meaning in attempting to engage their politics in any more than the most basic sense. The groups always exaggerate the impact of actions upon the rest of us when it's usually a no-op as far as we're concerned. E.g. Reddit iama had this massive controversy around a Reddit facilitator being fired…

Misguided yet understandable conclusion. People enjoy doing things for others. It's a deep Need people have. If mass violence and wars, natural disasters of all kinds through the ages, have not been able to make us more selfish and wipe out that need, internet drama is not going to either. The process is messy sure, and if you are experiencing it for the first time it can be confusing, repulsive and misleading. It's…

If sure you didn't intend it, but your tone "misguided", "if you are experiencing it for the first time..." is rather condescending.

Bear in mind there are many of us with many years in the online trenches who have reached the same conclusion - participation is one thing; giving over a huge part of your time and energy is more questionable.

Also the idea that people do it out of an altruistic need to help may be true in some cases but neglects the significant motivation of validation, the need to feel noticed and appreciated through upvotes and other reputation buzzes, and the following increase in "power" and "status", which isn't so obviously positive and healthy.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#98

Post by LeoNatan25 »

Avamander wrote: post #74
LeoNatan25 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is able to flag for close, delete or downvote (above a very small point requirement—125, I thing). I cannot delete questions or answers on any whim. I can vote to to delete after a certain threshold of low-score passes. I don't see what is so problematic with this, as any user with a little persistence can reach this goal.

How is "persistence" the correct characteristic based on which to select who gets to moderate? I'm also well aware of the thresholds, I don't think one user should just have only one integer value based on which one gets all the privileges.

Because someone who is active in a community and has high confidence by the community (= high points), it is more likely that this person is capable of moderating this community better than someone who is not familiar with the subjects of the community.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#99

Post by zbentley »

pjc50 wrote: post #82
MrStonedOne wrote: post #29

This is natural selection at work. Stack Exchange has become a frustrating site to use. "Closed as duplicate: different and unrelated question" reopen further explaining the question and how its not related "Closed as duplicate: the first question that was immediately closed with no replies" OR! Google around, find SE link on issue, everybody is arguing about why the user wants to do it that why, convinces them to do…

StackExchange needs a sibling forum. I know forums are in opposition to everything that SE stands for, but for quite a lot of cases the questioner would benefit more from a back-and-forth, or open-ended discussion, and then at the end of the process if it's been refined then turn it into a question. If not, then let the thread auto-close and maybe even expire into deletion. Also, any SE equivalent needs to understand…

Programmers, among others, are notoriously unable to give up on arguments. What makes you think discussion would help someone refine inquiries into a question rather than just an endless tribal war or bikeshedding session?

Additionally, I can't imagine any format less friendly to a beginner/intermediate programmer than an endless thread of experts arguing minutiae and holy-wars couched as objective fact. Even as an advanced user, sometimes I want a straight and to the point answer, even if it's not the best possible one, so I can get on with my work or research from there.

Remember, SE is foremost a site for readers seeking existent answers. Not askers. Not answerers. Neither of those last two groups has dwindled substantially enough in response to askers/answerers complaints to impact the experience of users seeking existent answers. Therefore, in my opinion, SE still works well.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#100

Post by cies »

ianai wrote: post #18
raesene9 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

mods are volunteers, who provide their time for free to improve the site, I'm not aware of any mods that are paid.

How is that acceptable? People need to be paid for working.

There is a lot of "work" that goes unpaid. House work. Internships. And many artist work for free in order to get exposure.
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