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Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

theguardian.com

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Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#31

Post by robotresearcher »

seibelj wrote: post #28
robotresearcher wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not logically wrong, but I'd value a few moments of empathy for the author of the article higher than this comment.

I have empathy for the illness but the author seems to lack appreciation for the incredible system working to keep her alive. The article is sad for the illness and also is a polemic against the capitalist system that allows her to survive whatsoever.

Bah, she can be grateful for the system later if and when she survives, her fingernails have grown back and she can button up her own shirt. Meanwhile, I found the insight into her situation educational and heartrending.

If you step on a lego piece, do you immediately yell 'what a valuable and well-crafted toy product', or 'fuck that hurts'?

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#32

Post by jcims »

huherto wrote: post #21
md224 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems so counterintuitive to choose to inflict this kind of damage to oneself, in the hopes that it will prevent an even worse outcome. Especially since the "worse outcome" -- your own non-existence -- is the one thing in the Universe you are guaranteed to never experience (though your loved ones can experience your non-existence, and that can be a good reason to try to avoid it).

> your own non-existence - Why is it so hard to accept this? Why is it so scary?

Probably because, despite all the bullshit, everything we love is here too.

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#33

Post by seibelj »

robotresearcher wrote: post #31
seibelj wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have empathy for the illness but the author seems to lack appreciation for the incredible system working to keep her alive. The article is sad for the illness and also is a polemic against the capitalist system that allows her to survive whatsoever.

Bah, she can be grateful for the system later if and when she survives, her fingernails have grown back and she can button up her own shirt. Meanwhile, I found the insight into her situation educational and heartrending. If you step on a lego piece, do you immediately yell 'what a valuable and well-crafted toy product', or 'fuck that hurts'?

The details of what it’s like to live with that disease are insightful. I have a more raw understanding of what that is like now.

But intertwined with the article is a critique of every single bit of the system, and larger society, that is fantastically successful at keeping an ever increasing number of such patients alive. The author critiques the economic system, the hospitals, the doctors, the genders of the care staff, the drugs themselves, whether she even deserves to live given the potential to harm the environment, and on and on.

I’m an optimist, and in her position I would be so thankful that I have the opportunity to survive. My brother beat a horrible kidney disease at 6 years old that necessitated a 12 month hospital stay, and his memory from that period has been wiped. I do not hate the capitalist system that saved his life, I am very very grateful for the doctors, researchers, and support staff that saved him - as is he.

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#34

Post by jcims »

niketdesai wrote: post #27
brent_noorda wrote: post #8

Being alive to criticize the treatment is usually better than the alternative.

You capture the nuance by saying usually. Many people, logically, would arrive to this conclusion. When the treatment starts, one is even energized. Then, in the middle a person regrets being so optimistic at all. They find their assumption of life being better than death more naive than they could have imagined. It's not just the treatment. It is the wider picture of your life stopping. And within that context your…

It's not really clear to me what people are asking for. If cancer pays a visit, you have two main options:

1 - Don't treat the disease and either do nothing or basic palliative care. The cancer is unlikely to go away on its own and will begin to spread to your lungs and liver and brain and mutilate your body until it doesn't function and you die. Less up front pain, possibly less area under the painful waking hours curve, but almost certainly an early death.

2 - Treat using standard of care chemo/surgery/radiation. Doctors do the mutilating and poisoning a bit more selectively, you lose dignity, bodily functions, jobs, relationships and gain a stigma and a curse of uncertainty. Maybe they get the upper hand and you live a life with lower but possibly acceptable quality. Maybe they don't and you still die but possibly a bit more slowly.

There's no good option yet. People are stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. That's why you can't go more than a few hours without hearing about cancer on TV and see walks and fundraisers and ribbons and shaved heads.

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#35

Post by nql »

huherto wrote: post #21
md224 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems so counterintuitive to choose to inflict this kind of damage to oneself, in the hopes that it will prevent an even worse outcome. Especially since the "worse outcome" -- your own non-existence -- is the one thing in the Universe you are guaranteed to never experience (though your loved ones can experience your non-existence, and that can be a good reason to try to avoid it).

> your own non-existence - Why is it so hard to accept this? Why is it so scary?

My thought is that it is because humans are prediction machines, and death is the most unpredictable event possible. Many cultures try to make death predictable by introducing concepts of heaven, which does seem to work for people who believe it.

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#36

Post by adrianm »

algaeontoast wrote: post #13

If I ever have a cancer diagnosis that would require extreme treatment or a pro-longed period of suffering, i.e. stage 3 or 4, I'd seriously consider shooting myself rather enduring months if not years of agony. In theory I'd have insurance, however why put my family through years of seeing me suffer and become a person they might not recognize?

Because there is hope.

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#37

Post by yoloswagins »

algaeontoast wrote: post #13

If I ever have a cancer diagnosis that would require extreme treatment or a pro-longed period of suffering, i.e. stage 3 or 4, I'd seriously consider shooting myself rather enduring months if not years of agony. In theory I'd have insurance, however why put my family through years of seeing me suffer and become a person they might not recognize?

For sake of reference, please look into hospice. They care for the terminally ill, focused on your pain and symptoms, and attend to your emotional and spiritual needs.

It's much nicer, and easier than making a huge mess for your family to clean up.

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#38

Post by jcims »

seibelj wrote: post #33
robotresearcher wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bah, she can be grateful for the system later if and when she survives, her fingernails have grown back and she can button up her own shirt. Meanwhile, I found the insight into her situation educational and heartrending. If you step on a lego piece, do you immediately yell 'what a valuable and well-crafted toy product', or 'fuck that hurts'?

The details of what it’s like to live with that disease are insightful. I have a more raw understanding of what that is like now. But intertwined with the article is a critique of every single bit of the system, and larger society, that is fantastically successful at keeping an ever increasing number of such patients alive. The author critiques the economic system, the hospitals, the doctors, the genders of the care…

I generally agree with you, but after being a bystander to almost two years of treatments and probably half a million in medical bills being handed over to insurance, I can say with certainty there's a lot of fuckery and twisted incentives in the system. Yes amazing things are happening too, but there's a lot to get pissed about, and I'll give her some room to vent.

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#39

Post by bmurphy1976 »

jcims wrote: post #30
geofffox wrote: post #29

I am a pancreatic cancer survivor. It is considered incurable in 2019 and I'm here because of a 1930s era surgery called a Whipple procedure. Around 9% survive five years or more -- a number that hasn't really changed. In a belt plus suspenders move I underwent 2 rounds (six infusions per round) of chemo plus 28 consecutive weekdays of radiation after surgery. All my doctors are amazed at my recovery, a few saying th…

Trying to help my wife through chemo now, and the staying hydrated and eating something is kicking our butts. Her oncologist believes that her nausea is due to directly to disease progression and it's relentless. We're now on a regimen of phenergen every 6 hours but that just prevents cyclic nausea from occurring AND it knocks her out to where she's sleeping at least 20 hrs a day. Then when she wakes up she can only…

Serious question: have you tried marijuana? I always figured if I ever ended up in this kind of situation that would be the first thing I would try to help me eat.

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#40

Post by vo2maxer »

sfjailbird wrote: post #6

Chemotherapy is scary. It seems so counterintuitive to choose to inflict this kind of damage to oneself, in the hopes that it will prevent an even worse outcome. Part of it is that there is this nagging feeling that it might not even be the right approach, given the legion of side effects of all kinds. Even oncologists get vague and evasive when this is questioned. In the end we can only rely on generalized statistic…

Ten years after my mother’s death from cancer, I still have trouble when I remember her long agonizing death. I didn’t get use to it then, and I wouldn’t describe my feelings now as significantly better. The pain has become somewhat less intense, blunted by blurred memories. The death rattle went on for an eternity, and still haunts me. So, no, I wouldn’t say I got used to it. And, yes, I am still very angry at such a biological “evil,” capable of killing indiscriminately both young and old. I respectfully disagree with your fatalism when it comes to the suffering and death of a loved one.
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