Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#21

Post by huherto » Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 2:14 AM UTC

md224 wrote: post #18

sfjailbird wrote: post #6

Chemotherapy is scary. It seems so counterintuitive to choose to inflict this kind of damage to oneself, in the hopes that it will prevent an even worse outcome. Part of it is that there is this nagging feeling that it might not even be the right approach, given the legion of side effects of all kinds. Even oncologists get vague and evasive when this is questioned. In the end we can only rely on generalized statistic…

> It seems so counterintuitive to choose to inflict this kind of damage to oneself, in the hopes that it will prevent an even worse outcome. Especially since the "worse outcome" -- your own non-existence -- is the one thing in the Universe you are guaranteed to never experience (though your loved ones can experience your non-existence, and that can be a good reason to try to avoid it).

> your own non-existence -

Why is it so hard to accept this? Why is it so scary?

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#22

Post by turk73 » Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 2:23 AM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #14

> My desire to survive means I still can’t bring myself to unravel survival’s ethics. One of the chemotherapy drugs with which I was treated, cyclophosphamide, passes into the urine only partially diluted, is only partially removed by water treatment methods, and lasts in the common water supply for 400 to 800 days. Another, carboplatin, is described in its manufacturer’s information sheet as having the “environmenta…

No, we spend so much so that companies like the one I work at can make billions and be in the Fortune 10. The huge costs are extraction of wealth and there isn't that much to show for it.

We also have a 2-tiered medical system where the ultra-wealthy and well-connected receive all the best treatments while the rest of us get fuck all.

We are perceived as nothing but ants in a giant colony to those who rule the world.

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#23

Post by imglorp » Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 2:28 AM UTC

nextos wrote: post #9

joshgel wrote: post #7

Traditional chemotherapy is toxic to all cells. Cancer cells grow rapidly (part of what makes them dangerous). So the toxic effect gets the cancer cells first, since cells that are growing take up the most chemotherapy. But other cells grow rapidly too, like hair and intestinal cells, which is why cancer patients lose their hair and have terrible nausea/diarrhea. All (almost all?) cells take up some chemo. So, you ar…

That's right. Chemotherapy is, sadly, a very primitive treatment. I regret we have spent so much money on cancer genomics, when some outsiders where trying to push for immunotherapies. Thankfully, that changed 3 or 4 years ago.

Cut, burn, and poison: well practiced and sometimes effective but yeah it's horrific to experience and barbaric.

I regret we aren't spending more on both genomics AND immunotherapies AND whatever else bears exploring.

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#24

Post by robotresearcher » Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 2:37 AM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #14

> My desire to survive means I still can’t bring myself to unravel survival’s ethics. One of the chemotherapy drugs with which I was treated, cyclophosphamide, passes into the urine only partially diluted, is only partially removed by water treatment methods, and lasts in the common water supply for 400 to 800 days. Another, carboplatin, is described in its manufacturer’s information sheet as having the “environmenta…

You're not logically wrong, but I'd value a few moments of empathy for the author of the article higher than this comment.

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#25

Post by tom_ » Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 2:42 AM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #14

> My desire to survive means I still can’t bring myself to unravel survival’s ethics. One of the chemotherapy drugs with which I was treated, cyclophosphamide, passes into the urine only partially diluted, is only partially removed by water treatment methods, and lasts in the common water supply for 400 to 800 days. Another, carboplatin, is described in its manufacturer’s information sheet as having the “environmenta…

I’m sorry you’re having a bad day.

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#26

Post by niketdesai » Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 2:42 AM UTC

imglorp wrote: post #23

nextos wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right. Chemotherapy is, sadly, a very primitive treatment. I regret we have spent so much money on cancer genomics, when some outsiders where trying to push for immunotherapies. Thankfully, that changed 3 or 4 years ago.

Cut, burn, and poison: well practiced and sometimes effective but yeah it's horrific to experience and barbaric. I regret we aren't spending more on both genomics AND immunotherapies AND whatever else bears exploring.

I am quite optimistic IO and cell based therapies will minimize these techniques. But there's more baking to be done before they can be rolled out. The "primitive" techniques can be quite reliable for specific cancer variants.

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#27

Post by niketdesai » Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 2:45 AM UTC

brent_noorda wrote: post #8

Being alive to criticize the treatment is usually better than the alternative.

You capture the nuance by saying usually.

Many people, logically, would arrive to this conclusion. When the treatment starts, one is even energized. Then, in the middle a person regrets being so optimistic at all. They find their assumption of life being better than death more naive than they could have imagined.

It's not just the treatment. It is the wider picture of your life stopping. And within that context your body, deteriorating, is only one component.

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#28

Post by seibelj » Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 2:53 AM UTC

robotresearcher wrote: post #24

seibelj wrote: post #14

> My desire to survive means I still can’t bring myself to unravel survival’s ethics. One of the chemotherapy drugs with which I was treated, cyclophosphamide, passes into the urine only partially diluted, is only partially removed by water treatment methods, and lasts in the common water supply for 400 to 800 days. Another, carboplatin, is described in its manufacturer’s information sheet as having the “environmenta…

You're not logically wrong, but I'd value a few moments of empathy for the author of the article higher than this comment.

I have empathy for the illness but the author seems to lack appreciation for the incredible system working to keep her alive. The article is sad for the illness and also is a polemic against the capitalist system that allows her to survive whatsoever.

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#29

Post by geofffox » Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 2:57 AM UTC

I am a pancreatic cancer survivor. It is considered incurable in 2019 and I'm here because of a 1930s era surgery called a Whipple procedure. Around 9% survive five years or more -- a number that hasn't really changed.

In a belt plus suspenders move I underwent 2 rounds (six infusions per round) of chemo plus 28 consecutive weekdays of radiation after surgery. All my doctors are amazed at my recovery, a few saying the best they've seen (though it came with diabetes and a different digestive pathway).

Chemo was awful. Mine came with a bag of steroids first to mask the effects for a few days. I scheduled my sessions for Thursday, knowing it wouldn't hit me until Friday night. One Saturday I slept around 20 hours.

However, by the end we had figured out how to minimize the effect of the chemo. I needed my wife who watched me diligently. Cancer is not a one person job! She made sure every time I opened my eyes I stayed hydrated and ate something.

Chemo should have gotten worse. It actually got easier.

My cancer never caused me pain. The treatment... that's another story. I left the hospital with my belly held together by 16 staples.

Re: Life as a cancer patient: ‘it feels like dying from the drugs meant to save me’

#30

Post by jcims » Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 3:02 AM UTC

geofffox wrote: post #29

I am a pancreatic cancer survivor. It is considered incurable in 2019 and I'm here because of a 1930s era surgery called a Whipple procedure. Around 9% survive five years or more -- a number that hasn't really changed. In a belt plus suspenders move I underwent 2 rounds (six infusions per round) of chemo plus 28 consecutive weekdays of radiation after surgery. All my doctors are amazed at my recovery, a few saying th…

Trying to help my wife through chemo now, and the staying hydrated and eating something is kicking our butts. Her oncologist believes that her nausea is due to directly to disease progression and it's relentless.

We're now on a regimen of phenergen every 6 hours but that just prevents cyclic nausea from occurring AND it knocks her out to where she's sleeping at least 20 hrs a day. Then when she wakes up she can only eat a little bit or she'll throw it back up. For hydration we finally just got home health giving her a liter twice a week plus a liter at chemo once a week.

She just recently over the past day or two has started to be able to hold a bit more down, but she's essentially got a form of PTSD from throwing up 5-10 times a day for 2-3 months.

Congrats to you on beating it man, especially pancreatic. This stuff really sucks.