Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#371

Post by marble-drink » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 9:07 PM UTC

marble-drink wrote: post #282

sabarn01 wrote: post #19

Whats wrong with stoicism. Feelings are fleeting in general didn't lead me to positive places. I think we should put a high value on people that can handle their own problems.

Indeed. For me, being stoic is the only way. Crying about problems does nothing so why do anything at all? We all have the power to choose to be the best person we can be given our circumstances. That is what I try to do every day. For me, men who need to share their feelings are weak. This is what women do. But we can't all be women. Men need to learn to enjoy their advantages: superior strength, speed, and resilien…

Predictably downvoted. Apparently I'm not allowed to express how I feel.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#372

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 9:49 PM UTC

fapjacks wrote: post #271

dang wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've participated in some of this work and agree that having feeling-sharing be the top line item is misleading. Feelings are involved, but the core of it is to face what one has been avoiding, in order to become stronger and grow. There's plenty of room for stoicism in that. The way to overcome pain is to acknowledge and include it instead of denying it. The difference is huge, and most of us need help to get there—…

This is stoicism though. To process things instead of holding them inside, bottling them up, or putting them off such that they salt our enjoyment of life. However there's a social component of this feelings-sharing which is the subtext of the parent comment. Not all issues need to be shared, and in fact it's a kind of emotional vampirism to prioritize sharing emotional context without focusing on the explicit purpos…

[deleted]

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#373

Post by dang » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 10:10 PM UTC

aortega wrote: post #291

darkerside wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it demonstrates a kind of strength and confidence to be open about your weakness. But that's literally what a vulnerability is: a weakness.

> But that's literally what a vulnerability is: a weakness. There is a concerted effort at social engineering so powerful that now the very word meanings are challenged. Vulnerability is always, unequivocally a weakness. It's the very definition of the word. Redefining vulnerability as strength is exactly 1984's Doublespeak.

That's not the definition of the word. It means being wounded or capable of being wounded (Latin vulnus = wound):

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vulnerable

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/vulnerable?s=t

Therefore all humans are vulnerable. Where strength vs. weakness enter into it is how one deals with one's vulnerability. That gets complex. Is denial strength or weakness? Maybe both.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#374

Post by mirimir » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 10:13 PM UTC

goatinaboat wrote: post #347

mirimir wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe like Brad Pitt as Achilles. Who was bisexual. Which, I gather, was common at the time among warriors.

Which, I gather, was common at the time among warriors. The Greek concept of sexuality was quite different than ours, and their class system played a very predominant role in what we would call gender. Also, age.

From what I know, yes. Your "gender" status basically depended on who you could penetrate, and vice versa.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#375

Post by dang » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 10:17 PM UTC

pdub123 wrote: post #279

If you think "The Patriarchy"^TM exists, you have a very simplistic, univariate understanding of reality. You're associating causality for whatever negative things happen to you in your life, not with your own set of circumstances, choices, or human agency, but rather with one single factor-- some ethereal 00.00001% group of conspiratorial, ostensibly straight white old men... with whatever happens to you in life. It…

Your comments have unfortunately been breaking the site guidelines. Would you mind reviewing them and sticking to the rules when posting here? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

We're particularly trying to avoid flamewars and personal attacks.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21099474 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#376

Post by jimkleiber » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 10:32 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #237

jimkleiber wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree about spaces to emotionally vent...goodness, the internet lets me vent about anything, at any time, with almost any audience of my choosing, through words, sounds, and video. On the second part, I would say that emotions are often unarticulated, which may be similar to what you're saying. For me, what I've been trying to practice is that when I start to feel angry, to say "I feel angry" instead of "what is wr…

I'm not sure I understand the bit about digital technology, but this seems to me to be pure gold: " For me, what I've been trying to practice is that when I start to feel angry, to say "I feel angry" instead of "what is wrong with you??" "

:-) glad that part was helpful!

Regarding the digital technology part, for me it's basically saying that we have this messy, organic, chemical mix of things happening within our bodies, and then we condense all of that into one word, e.g., "happy."

What fascinates me about language, and frustrates me, and does many other things to me, is the fact that when I use the word "happy" it may be describing a different internal messiness than your word "happy," and yet, the more we have in common, the more I will often assume our definitions are the same. I can't tell you how many conflicts in which I've found myself from definitions that I assumed to be shared but were in fact different, e.g., "I'm ready to leave," lol.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#377

Post by fapjacks » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 10:50 PM UTC

yabadabadoes wrote: post #278

fapjacks wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why it never will be attractive, though. Because emotional detachment and opacity is how you kill and survive on the battlefield.

I wouldn't say never, I think you see substantially different behavior being rewarded in "metrosexual" cities and less stereotypical displays in leaders of groups that are aware they are unable to violate UN comittee rules, etc, to try to steal from other groups.

In general I agree that it's wrong to say "always" or "never" in any context, and especially with something as complex as human social behavior. However if you'll allow me a bit of anecdote, I've found that places which are outwardly considered "metrosexual" (maybe not the best descriptor, but maybe close enough) kinds of cities or countries actually lend significantly more success to "traditional" male sexual signals than other places.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#378

Post by dang » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 11:22 PM UTC

jimkleiber wrote: post #376

dang wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand the bit about digital technology, but this seems to me to be pure gold: " For me, what I've been trying to practice is that when I start to feel angry, to say "I feel angry" instead of "what is wrong with you??" "

:-) glad that part was helpful! Regarding the digital technology part, for me it's basically saying that we have this messy, organic, chemical mix of things happening within our bodies, and then we condense all of that into one word, e.g., "happy." What fascinates me about language, and frustrates me, and does many other things to me, is the fact that when I use the word "happy" it may be describing a different inter…

Ah. Yes. And interestingly put.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#379

Post by dang » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 11:23 PM UTC

edmundsauto wrote: post #144

dang wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of room in our society to emotionally vent; it just happens in private relationships and on internet forums. The challenge is that the emotions are often uncontained, and uncontained emotion is closely related to violence, as you say.

What's even more interesting (to me, at least) is that venting might not be helpful. "Does distraction or rumination work better to diffuse anger? Catharsis theory predicts that rumination works best, but empirical evidence is lacking." [0] http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bbushman/PSPB02.pdf

It is an interesting question. I've personally found that most venting and catharsis leads to repetition and maybe even strengthens existing patterns. Contemporary work on trauma (Bessel van der Kolk, Peter Levine, Gabor Maté) regards catharsis as retraumatizing and works instead with "titration", i.e. re-experiencing and expressing just a little at a time.

On the other hand, I've personally experienced a cathartic process that—as best as one can trace these things—brought real change, so there's no single answer about this.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#380

Post by sebastianconcpt » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 11:29 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #348

sebastianconcpt wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does require courage and even confidence but not of the masculine type. When a female exposes herself she receives an abundance of emotional support so there isn't much courage needed, just a little bit. So is easier for a female to feel confident about doing it. But if people see that you are a strong guy, then is natural for them to expect to "man up" and support yourself instead of elaborating victimist narrati…

No question those biases exist, but it's mistaken to think that vulnerability requires confidence "not of the masculine type". There are different ways to be vulnerable. Some have to do with being willing to take risks. Say you're in a group situation and it is affecting you in some way that's not ok—not merely annoying, but touching something of deep importance in your experience. If you bring that information into…

Agree that pushing things under the rug doesn't help anyone but displaying vulnerability is a no-no for men. Men are not defective women. They need to process emotional thigns from a masculine emotional frame of streght, not vulnerability. In nature, when low in the status social graph, masculine homo sapiens are the disposable gender. Other people won't run to create emotional safety nets or safe spaces for them. Every men knows this deep inside.

At the same time I do think is totally okay to share that something is affecting you as a men but, if you are a man, is not good to express it from a feminine emotional framework. I has to be somehow preprocessed in a masculine frame:

"hey guys, let me share this with you, listen... I've been experiencing A, B and C and I see is causing D and E and affecting me in this F way... is that okay? Is that what we want? I think if we can review it in this X1 way it will be good because A1, B1 and C1 reasons... but if this isn't going to change I need to know because I'm a man with options and I eventually need to define if this is working for me, so I need to know it"