151–160 of 402 posts
I think we're starting to hit a critical moment with this. As men we have an unbelievable amount of expectation on our reactions, communication, behavior, past behavior, and others behavior. (Their friends and their partners) On top of all of this: Men spaces have been mostly eliminated.
What were the men's spaces before? Legitimate question as I may be too young to have known them.
Nothing helps me get through feelings more than getting punched, and punching someone. Its the main reason I still goto hardcore/punk shows. The moshpit is a group therapy session.
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That's not really surprising, is it? Any minimally functional group eventually lead to opportunities. The outgroup (women in this case) want to access those opportunities. Any push back against that will be labeled as misogynistic or ridiculed. Men have no other choices than to open up the group and let it become just another open space for everyone. What is surprising is how some groups: 1) just lay down and accept…
I understand the feeling but I think this is too zero-sum. You know who has the most positive reactions by far to men doing healing work in men-only circles? Their wives/girlfriends. Not because the men somehow become more 'feminine' or lose power, but usually because they get something that they badly needed and were stuck about for a long time.
It’s wonderful that’s been your experience of women, but don’t invalidate what others experience — particularly with a citation free comment.
For those wondering why my comment is flagged: dang engages in political censorship, and flagged my account because of my views. I look forward to the upcoming rules on social media censorship, and the accountability that will bring to dang’s actions.
Female sexual attraction favors secure men who don't talk feelings. This results in men feeling unable to express their emotions around their significant other. On the other side, male sexuality selects based on looks more than anything. Feminism calls the latter shallow and toxic, but truthfully both should have that label. Neither is serving society or evolution well anymore. But what can we do? Sexual attraction i…
No, no. Women love it when men share their feelings. But they've gotta be the right feelings. A man should be brave and confident and supportive and strong and happy and secure. Maybe he worries about things a little, sometimes, but then he's OK again and he always has a plan.
He's unafraid to open up and be vulnerable, of course, but what he's being vulnerable to is never anything that would be a burden on anyone else or reduce his usefulness to the woman.
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Are you saying that there should be different standards of acceptable behavior for boys versus girls. Or are you saying if the schools paid more attention to how boys normally behave, they would accept a more broad definition of “acceptable behavior” for all children?
Yes, people are different, you need extremely flexible standards to accommodate this. Right now the standards are far too rigid, and we have enough data now to know that on average they harm boys far more than girls.
I participated in men's work, not specifically the ManKind Project but a closely related organization. I personally found it helpful doing weekly check-ins and having people holding me accountable to my goals. Unfortunately, the stigma regarding men sharing feelings is prevalent in western society, and it's not only the men causing it. When I told several female friends about the work they did, their response was: "A…
I’m not sure this is only western society. Is there an indigenous culture that values male emotions without stigma? As I think about Asia and Africa, I’m drawing a blank on this. But I’d be happy to be shown wrong.
I participated in men's work, not specifically the ManKind Project but a closely related organization. I personally found it helpful doing weekly check-ins and having people holding me accountable to my goals. Unfortunately, the stigma regarding men sharing feelings is prevalent in western society, and it's not only the men causing it. When I told several female friends about the work they did, their response was: "A…
> it's not only the men causing it. One thing I find fascinating about humans is that we are so compulsively cultural that we will actively propagate cultural practices that are harmful even to ourselves. When you are young, you absorb whatever culture is around you completely uncritically, and then you immediately turn around and start broadcasting to the next generation. Cultural changes and evolves, of course, but…
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I agree. I find that the healthiest people in my life don't seem to be the types prone to endless rumination. I think this is where meditation (and stoicism) deviates from some types of psychotherapy and most support groups. Meditation teaches you to look at feelings dispassionately, which helps you lessen their power. This is very different than treating each emotion as if it is "correct" and in need of resolution v…
If the healthier people have by definition less emotional suffering, then of course they're going to complain less.
I recently did the NWTA weekend retreat with the ManKind Project and found it a surprisingly profound experience. I would recommend it for most men I’ve known. Happy to answer any questions anyone has. I’m not surprised to see so much pushback and gatekeeping here from other men, or suggestions that encouraging men to find spaces to “talk about their feelings” are a radical feminist ploy to subvert true masculinity,…
Calling it "New Warrior Training Adventure" comes across as super patronizing. "ManKind" isn't great either. The names alone are surely responsible for much of the pushback that you're seeing.
I did a bit of digging though, trying to keep an open mind, and I was surprised to find that MKP is indeed not a radical program to feminize men.
Their FAQ is pretty informative: https://mankindproject.org/frequently-asked-questions
Their YouTube channel gives a feel for it: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcR01KkQCYfHbzHwBlI8eeg
Basically, it's a small nondenominational religion for woke men. The leaders are a Marine Corps officer, a therapist, and a PhD of "curriculum studies". It's not very surprising to see all the comments here about how profound it was, because it was designed to be a spiritual experience.
It looks like a cult and is certainly weird (nudity is optional), but the leaders aren't getting rich off of it, and you are allowed to leave. There are regular meetings, rituals, a set of shared values, and a drive to recruit more members. It seems like mostly dudes who want to better themselves and the world at large. A lot of it is classic self-help stuff. They advertise NWTA as "Get Ready for a 48 Hour Adventure that Can Transform Your World as a Man", for example.
I think people are right to be skeptical of these types of groups, as they're playing to an audience of disaffected men and trying to improve lives with groupthink and rituals. I'd place MKP somewhere between Scientology and Tony Robbins. Probably a powerful experience in person, but best to avoid it or you might get roped into an organization.
I wouldn’t take this as a representative sample of all men. In my experience, sharing feelings makes me feel worse and substantially reduces my appeal to others. I prefer to just deal with my problems logically and avoid such navel gazing.
What is illogical about discussing feelings? Is it illogical to ask for food if you are hungry?
It's fairly common for people to have adverse reactions to therapy. Not everyone reacts the same to this sort of thing.