Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Boeing assumed that pilots could be relied upon to recover from a MCAS induced runaway trim. Practice has shown that they can't. Whether Boeing or the pilots is at fault is, from a safety perspective, irrelevant. From a practical perspective, however, Boeing making universal assumptions about pilot capabilities in life-or-death situations, utilizing new equipment that they were not trained on, is anything but irrel…
Their logic was that pilots are trained to deal with runaway trim, a MCAS failure is runaway trim, ergo pilots are trained to deal with a MCAS failure. Obviously that logic turned out to be faulty but it's not like Boeing made some outlandish leap here.
Plane Tests Must Use Average Pilots, NTSB Says After 737 Max Crashes
171–180 of 317 posts
Re: Plane Tests Must Use Average Pilots, NTSB Says After 737 Max Crashes
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sport pilot here: total flight hours on an airliner is an almost useless metric, the difference between 2000 hours and 5000 hours is negligible. I know pilots with over 10,000 hours that died in stupid accidents, I know instructors that never performed maneuvers that are almost routine to other pilots that don't even have 500 hours. I know dozens of pilots and there is no average one, some are very good and some are…
Is there any data that would show that? Like crashes with pilot error as a contributing cause mapped to hours, and weighted by bands of hours.
Re: Plane Tests Must Use Average Pilots, NTSB Says After 737 Max Crashes
#173Actually they must use the worst pilots. If they use average pilots that means 50% of the pilots might be out of their depth flying that plane. What kind of insanity is this?
Re: Plane Tests Must Use Average Pilots, NTSB Says After 737 Max Crashes
#174Re: Plane Tests Must Use Average Pilots, NTSB Says After 737 Max Crashes
#175Re: Plane Tests Must Use Average Pilots, NTSB Says After 737 Max Crashes
#176Actually they must use the worst pilots. If they use average pilots that means 50% of the pilots might be out of their depth flying that plane. What kind of insanity is this?
I agree. Though I would also feel pretty disheartened if I got a call from them after that decision was made - "Hey, we need someone of your skill level to come in and fly some test planes" "...okay"
Re: Plane Tests Must Use Average Pilots, NTSB Says After 737 Max Crashes
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Boeing assumed that pilots could be relied upon to recover from a MCAS induced runaway trim. Practice has shown that they can't. Whether Boeing or the pilots is at fault is, from a safety perspective, irrelevant. From a practical perspective, however, Boeing making universal assumptions about pilot capabilities in life-or-death situations, utilizing new equipment that they were not trained on, is anything but irrel…
Their logic was that pilots are trained to deal with runaway trim, a MCAS failure is runaway trim, ergo pilots are trained to deal with a MCAS failure. Obviously that logic turned out to be faulty but it's not like Boeing made some outlandish leap here.
Re: Plane Tests Must Use Average Pilots, NTSB Says After 737 Max Crashes
#178Wouldn't you need the worse pilot you can get? Average doesn't account for the fact that 50% of the sample are WORSE.
Re: Plane Tests Must Use Average Pilots, NTSB Says After 737 Max Crashes
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
How about if that info was available to the public? I don't want to put my health and safety on a scale against someone's profitability.
It won't be someone's profitability, it'll be the ticket price that you pay.
Re: Plane Tests Must Use Average Pilots, NTSB Says After 737 Max Crashes
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, there are many reported incidents from US pilots of stability trim incidents in the FAA's database which, in hindsight, were due to MCAS. The pilots couldn't identify them as such at the time because, of course, they didn't know MCAS existed. But they were able to figure out the corrective action in time to maintain safe flight. (The reports also criticize the flight manual for being inadequate.) https://www.goo…
Also all of the US-based MAXs had the optional AoA Sensor Disagree indicator, which would instantly show the source of the issue. The international pilots were in the dark because Boeing turned a critical safety feature into a revenue stream.
Options are not all tied to fees, the process of ordering an airplane is quite complicated because of the immense amount of customization each airline does before they even pay for the aircraft. Its unclear how much this option cost, if it cost anything.
The reason why AoA indication is an option is that it requires more advanced training for the pilots, some airlines provide this training and some do not. The airlines are the ultimate decider on how much training pilots will get, Boeing and the FAA can only set minimums.