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Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

nytimes.com

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Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#61

Post by extension »

MichaelSalib wrote: post #24
extension wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, we're not going to change the end-game, we're just going to piss of Iran....and you think that's good? All I want is for nobody to get nuked. I think it's more likely that nobody will get nuked if Iran doesn't have nukes. But you're right that Stuxnet is a dirty move that erodes trust, that's why I'm conflicted. We have a terrible track record of getting large scale systems secured, even in areas where those syst…

I think it's more likely that nobody will get nuked if Iran doesn't have nukes. But this doesn't stop Iran from getting nukes, it only delays them. And I don't see why Iran getting nukes increases the probability of anyone getting nuked. A nuclear Iran is an Iran that still responds to deterrence. Surely going from complete obliviousness to awareness is the biggest step the industry will ever take to being secure Dis…

These are people who are very skilled...in their field

At the very least, they can follow process and act responsibly around breakable or dangerous things. That gives them huge advantage compared to offices and homes.

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#62

Post by [deleted] »

forensic wrote: post #56
atomical wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't people worried Iran could potentially develop something similar to target oil rigs? Is there a guy at the CIA saying, "Oh don't worry about it boys; it's a one off, they'll never be able to figure it out or respond in kind." At one point Persians were one of the most educated minorities in the US. They have good universities in Iran and I wouldn't put it past them to develop the capabilities to push back again…

All the educated Persians I know hate the crap out of the Iranian government and are happy about Stuxnet

[deleted]

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#64

Post by [deleted] »

forensic wrote: post #57
abdulhaq wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never remind Americans that they deliberately slaughtered over 100,000 civilians with nuclear weapons - they don't like it.

Would Muslims abstain from killing civilians in a world war? Moral arguments are pointless. We need results oriented thinking. Is it better or worse for everyone if Iranian leaders have nukes? I think even most Iranians would agree that it is worse. Their government is not exactly popular.

[deleted]

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#65

Post by spacemanaki »

forensic wrote: post #52
MichaelSalib wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran doesn't get nukes until later So, we're not going to change the end-game, we're just going to piss of Iran....and you think that's good? Consider things from the Iranian's perspective. Back in the day, they were establishing a legitimate democratically elected government. The US overthrew that government and pushed a brutal dictator into power, who tortured and murdered many Iranians. From their perspective, the…

You're speaking as if that hypothetical person in Iran actually exists and is immortal. The Iranians in 1953 are not the same Iranians today. The situation today is that you have a sabre rattling theocracy that funds terrorism trying to get nuclear weapons. What possible concession could the West make to get Iran to stop striving for nukes? Nothing. Iranian leadership wants nukes before their rule is overthrown by th…

> 1953 has no bearing on this situation 60 years later.

I'm not really educated on Iran, but I find this hard to believe. It wasn't that long ago...

edit - I should have posed the original comment as a question, but can anyone elaborate if I'm really totally wrong? Surely the coup in 53 would have had an effect on the revolution which would have an effect... ?

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#66

Post by nir »

btmorex wrote: post #29
Estragon wrote: post #25

I probably shouldn't be surprised by willful ignorance anymore, but it amazes me that everybody in the article can celebrate this achievement and at the same time admit that it's just "pushing back the clock." Israel's still going to get hit by a nuclear weapon some time, because the technology to build one is just going to keep getting cheaper and more accessible.

You think it's inevitable that Israel gets nuked? I find that very unlikely, especially since the attacking nation would definitely be destroyed as well. Iran doesn't want nukes so that they can destroy Israel. They wants nukes, because obtaining them immediately makes them powerful on the world stage. (and I say that as someone who really doesn't want to see them get nukes too because they're a crazy religious theoc…

>I find that very unlikely, especially since the attacking nation would definitely be destroyed as well.

You're talking about a region where suicide bombing is perhaps the most common attack method now. I think its clear that our definition of rationality is different from Iran's regime (as opposed to Iranian people).

I agree Israel is a relatively minor issue. The real conflict here is Sunni-Shiite and Farsi-Arab (Iran-Iraq war alone probably had more casualties than the entire 100 year Arab-Israeli conflict). If Iran has a nuclear capability, it's unthinkable that Saudi Arabia or Egypt or, at a later stage, Iraq, will not strive to have it as well. You will get a multi-lateral arms race in the most volatile region in the world.

On the other hand, it's impossible to stop Iran forcefully. The best you could hope for is to delay it, hoping that the current regime will be replaced by a more rational one.

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#67

Post by nir »

kenjackson wrote: post #9
jaydz wrote: post #7

This story would be more interesting if Microsoft and/or Siemens actually helped develop this malware.

I think the story would be more interesting if the malware appeared to have come from aliens from outside our solar system who knew that Iran getting nuclear capability would destroy the world and eventually set the galaxy out of balance. They send a virus back through time to stop Iran. This reporter finds evidence of this in the virus, and additionally finds indications of future events that have yet to unfold, but…

The story could definitely use some Nicholas Cage.

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#68

Post by adrianwaj »

edanm wrote: post #44
btmorex wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think it's inevitable that Israel gets nuked? I find that very unlikely, especially since the attacking nation would definitely be destroyed as well. Iran doesn't want nukes so that they can destroy Israel. They wants nukes, because obtaining them immediately makes them powerful on the world stage. (and I say that as someone who really doesn't want to see them get nukes too because they're a crazy religious theoc…

"You think it's inevitable that Israel gets nuked? I find that very unlikely, especially since the attacking nation would definitely be destroyed as well." The biggest fear isn't that Iran attacks Israel. The biggest fear is that they'll make a few nuclear weapons, give them to terrorists that aren't officially affiliated with them, and let the terrorists nuke Israel. In a case where there is a terrorist nuclear atta…

"give them to terrorists that aren't officially affiliated with them"

I'm not convinced that this will happen, although I used to think so. Those terrorists could turn on Iran. 'Suckers you gave us a nuke, but now we want more or else.' Any proliferation at all would alter the balance of power. The Iraninan regime know this, and I predict that the only thing the regime wants more than to destroy Israel is to stay in power whilst watching this happen, and giving away nukes would not necessarily bode all that well with this goal. Terrorists with nukes could usurp power in Iran before they even lay a finger on Israel.

add: In my opinion, the most Iran can hope for is a direct confrontation with Israel that involves nuclear missiles, which ideally would see the decimation of Israel. These missiles will be fired from Iran. But I think there would be an Iranian uprising or some type of coup before that occurs: the people of Iran like themselves more than they hate Israel, and definitely don't want to suicide for it. Israel also has counter-measures to defend against it.

Iranian controlled mobile nuke scuds parked in south Lebanon - that's a possibility, but not now at least. I don't think the Lebanese would like that very much, and what if they're sabotaged by Israel or confiscated by Hizbollah? Risky.

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#69

Post by forensic »

spacemanaki wrote: post #65
forensic wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're speaking as if that hypothetical person in Iran actually exists and is immortal. The Iranians in 1953 are not the same Iranians today. The situation today is that you have a sabre rattling theocracy that funds terrorism trying to get nuclear weapons. What possible concession could the West make to get Iran to stop striving for nukes? Nothing. Iranian leadership wants nukes before their rule is overthrown by th…

> 1953 has no bearing on this situation 60 years later. I'm not really educated on Iran, but I find this hard to believe. It wasn't that long ago... edit - I should have posed the original comment as a question, but can anyone elaborate if I'm really totally wrong? Surely the coup in 53 would have had an effect on the revolution which would have an effect... ?

Sure it had an effect. The 1953 coup allowed for the creation the theocracy.

But whether or not we spilled the milk, we still have to clean it up.

Re: Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm

#70

Post by aurem1 »

abdulhaq wrote: post #47
_szvt wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think for one minute. Who is the craziest nation in this regard? Who has used nukes twice to murder people. US of course.

Never remind Americans that they deliberately slaughtered over 100,000 civilians with nuclear weapons - they don't like it.

This is disingenuous. It happened in the context of trying to prevent an even bigger number of civilians dying in an inevitable invasion and continuation of the war. Your comment conveniently leaves the context out
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