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The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

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Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#271

Post by KirinDave »

mikraig wrote: post #264
KirinDave wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they should word the question that way then? No one is asking for using widely criticized ML tooling. The addition of the word "estimate" doesn't break the word budget and opens a lot of flexibility when it comes to unfamiliar tooling. Even if we ignore that, I reiterate: who has ever asked that question? The outlandishness of that question surely has at least as much responsibility as the obscurity of the UX i…

I just think that you're focusing on the wrong things here. Towards the top of the article they say: > One of the difficult tasks was to schedule a meeting room in a scheduling application, using information contained in several email messages. This was difficult because the problem statement was implicit and involved multiple steps and multiple constraints. It would have been much easier to solve the explicitly stat…

It's also a task people screw up routinely. Reliably getting a room for a meeting in a busy building is not a solvable problem. And again, it's a problem the vast majority of computer users simply do not and will never have.

The self-similar biasing in this study us almost ridiculous.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#272

Post by panopticon »

zbentley wrote: post #203
anieberry wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely love the VSC way of doing things, it means you can backup all your settings in a single JSON file. The UI they've built on top of it seems to work well enough too and is quickly searchable.

Strongly disagree. I don't want to have to think about structured data or syntactic validity, or trust a magical autocomplete to show me what options are available (and if it doesn't, does that mean it's a freetext preference? Or the autocomplete is broken? Or I invalidated the syntax somewhere else in the file and it no longer knows what I'm trying to do?) when I'm trying to configure software . Configuration is not…

> coupled with that terminal's excellent preference UI

I love iTerm and use it daily, but I would never call their checkbox soup "excellent".

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#273

Post by TuringTest »

raxxorrax wrote: post #267
TuringTest wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Committing instantly to the file is perfectly fine, as long as you have infinite undo (preferably with version history) and local drafts - i.e. exactly what VCS provide. A shared folder in a server doesn't separate saving from sharing, but that's a fault of shared folders, not autosave. The popular storage models for end users are utterly broken, but developers don't care because they don't need to endure it, they've…

I don't really know if that is in the interest of the user. Just copying a file universally works with any file format and is a concept that users can understand. A file has a name and a path, analogous to conventional storage systems. Putting it in a proprietary system like SharePoint or a Teams channel, to stay in the MS world, has other disadvantages. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes I thin…

Copying a file so as to get intermediate drafts is an inferior solution to proper versioning, as any developer using a version control system will tell you (moreso if, like me, they started programming before VCSs were a widely used industry standard).

I agree proprietary lock-in is a pain and a huge risk, but I'm talking about fundamental storage models here, not particular implementations (where the problem is lack of interoperability, not the storage model; a proprietary file system doesn't create lock-in, because there are open standards to get your data out of it).

The best content storage model for end users I've seen is the wiki, where you get content versioning for free, although it doesn't separate storage from publication. A wiki where you could keep local separate branches of content would be ideal, but a.f.a.i.k. the only wiki system using that model (shareable local copies) is the Smallest Federated Wiki[1], and it hasn't gained much tracktion.

[1] https://github.com/WardCunningham/Smallest-Federated-Wiki

> And asking the user if he really wants to save the file is probably just a good idea. If he ignores the message and throws away some work, he has learned a valuable lesson

See, that's the kind of comment explaining why users secretly (or openly!) hate computers and think they go after them. Too many developers creating their software are actively disrespecting user's work and their time, even decades after human-computer interaction specialists found the best practices for caring about the user and making their life easier.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#274

Post by baroffoos »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #138
Swizec wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make a bench with 4 cinder blocks and a plank. Now a good bench ... I guess the equivalent in computing would be spreadsheets? You can automate and build awesome things but god help you if you wanna move it somewhere else

As long as such a bench gets the job done, the person making it wins. Similarly with spreadsheets. Sure, they get ugly. But they allow to get work done better and faster that it would be otherwise (if it was done at all). The alternative usually involves finding a ready-made domain-specific application and adjusting your (or your company's) workflow to it, or pestering someone to make it for you, both of which are fr…

The idea of a house full of hacked together cinder block and chipboard furniture doesn't thrill me. It might work for a workshop but I think I will just pay for the expert made stuff in my house.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#275

Post by michaelmrose »

scarface74 wrote: post #269
michaelmrose wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car owners are a class of people that ranges from people living in said cars to the the hyper rich. It's probable that Bezos has to give zero fucks beyond what brand he prefers. People living in their car are probably just praying it doesn't break down. In between there is a giant middle ground that composes 80% of the car owning population whose benefit derived from car know how is inversely proportional to their we…

It’s called an existence proof. Most people don’t know anything about car repairs, yet they manage to go through life fine letting other people repair their cars.

There is an entire industry devoted into turning small regular maintenance tasks into big paydays based entirely on lies to people who don't know anything.

I don't think your existential proof is a good one. It's like proving Cigarettes are OK by noting that billions use and only millions die.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#276

Post by taneq »

confidantlake wrote: post #266
kortilla wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But people usually are expecting mean in your two examples.

I think they mean the median. Median income in a group of people is usually smaller than the mean becomes of extremely wealthy outliers. If someone says something about the "average person", they are not talking about the mean, they are talking about the median.

It's possible that median is a better measure of central tendency for those things. It also sounds like you're interpreting their use of 'average' as meaning median when you think that would make more sense, rather than asking them (and in fairness, I don't usually grill people on which measure they're thinking of when they say 'average' either). In my experience, people who actually understand the different measures of central tendency usually (on average, heheh) specify one explicitly. The rest of the population is probably only aware of arithmetic mean.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#277

Post by whoopdedo »

Izkata wrote: post #256
whoopdedo wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always been recognition over recollection. Users don't want to learn how the computer works. They just want to get to their desired solution as quick as possible. So they'll pay attention long enough to learn the correct sequence of buttons to push that achieves that then stop there. Any change to that mechanical process, no matter how innate to the UI it is, will be seen as a disruption. I used to think that UX…

This may be of interest, basically the same sentiment: http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-co...

I mean yes. But no.

A lot of what he says resonates with me. Except the bit about computers needing to be difficult to encourage learning. That's the adversity-builds-character mindset that I disagree with. The computer I learned to hack on was a Macintosh IIsi. It wasn't bare metal like a 8-bit computer that booted into BASIC. Nor finicky with lots of arcane configurations like a Windows 3.1 machine (and I've used both of those as well). It had all the it just works plug-and-play that he laments in Windows 7 but as a curious kid with a hacker mentality it served me just fine. Enough that by the time I graduated from it I was modifying the System with hooks written in 680x0 assembly.

But the author really goes wrong, I believe, in his conclusion that the cause of digital literacy is served by forcing users to be gurus. This is entirely wrong and is the crux of the observation I made above. There is a myth in UX development that programmers are targeting a conceptual user that exists somewhere on a continuous slope between novice and power user. The article ends with suggesting that computers be taught by setting people onto this theoretical path. (And to be honest I think he's mistaken that this isn't what we've already been doing and shown to not be effective.) But what if that path doesn't exist? Then trying to teach anyone that way will be fruitless.

My thought is that there is no gradual progression. Most people are not going to be able to learn computers the way that you and I have. So they need different ways of using computers than what we are used to. And that will mean a lot of disruptive ideas, which we may be suspicious of and call it "dumbing down". But what we should be more skeptical of is our own assumptions.

So if average people want to learn computers differently than nerds do, what we certainly don't want is to cut off the paths of discovery that lead to the next generation of super users, hackers, and developers. Both ways need to be preserved and encouraged to allow average users to get the most benefit of technology, while encouraging the more in-depth learning by those who want to be more deeply involved.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#278

Post by brokenmachine »

Double_a_92 wrote: post #179
js8 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, in really well-designed UI of the past, every menu option had a hint in the status bar, every GUI element had a tool tip, that explained what will happen when you click on it. I find modern applications (especially mobile ones) much harder to discover and use. If you're a teen, you have plenty of time to experiment, but as an adult, I just want to get the work done. Yeah, you could say that I don't want to lear…

I've read somewhere that to some degree apps do that on purpose. The users feel a sense of "pride" when they figure everything out which reduces incentive to switch to a competitor app. Also users can bond over the app while they explain eachother how it works and what little tricks there are. I think Snapchat was the example used in the article that I read.

That's an interesting take.

It would certainly lessen the incentive to switch apps if it was difficult to learn the one you know.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#279

Post by wrycoder »

scarface74 wrote: post #200
dusted wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. We should strive to master our surroundings. One thing is choosing not to repair your car today, because you have other things that give you greater value, another thing is not having the choice to repair it because you don't know how to. At a minimum, a human should know basic operating principles, repair and maintenance of their machines and buildings. Unfortunately, as most people chose to remain ignor…

At what level should I know it? There is a famous essay “I pencil” that posits no one person knows how to create a pencil ( http://www.joshharness.com/2012/10/nobody-knows-how-to-make-... )

I can tell you how to make a year's supply of charcoal in a couple of hours. Or, how to use a knife to make a writing quill from a feather, and how to make a lifetime supply of ink from household materials.

Making a pencil is a highly fragmented industrial process, even at the 19th century level. Just making the "lead" is quite sophisticated.

There is much satisfaction in being a maker - or at least being more than just a consumer.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#280

Post by Sharparam »

scarface74 wrote: post #202
Sharparam wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here we have self-service maintenance/cleaning places for cars (often at gas stations). So if you don't have your own driveway/garage you can rent some space and have access to tools and a place to do maintenance.

I’m sure if you find a nice farmer you can also pick up a chicken, manually snap it’s neck (seen it done before, my grandfather had a farm) and cook it yourself...

I was providing an example of what you can do if you want to service your car yourself but don't have the space where you live. Nobody says you have to if you prefer someone else do it for you.
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