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The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

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Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#201

Post by ClumsyPilot »

throwaway744678 wrote: post #165
gen3 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And this is why software sucks. We should focus on educating users, not stooping to their level Some users just don't want to learn. It's the reason why I always get a phone call when [Thing I've tried to sit down and teach to grandma] needs to be done. You're on to something when talking about consistency and following design language. Building a good UI takes skill and thought into making the design intuitive eno…

Some users also really want to learn, but can't, for some reason. My grandmother used a computer for years, I spent countless hours explaining it to her, but she never managed to be confident enough to break out of very detailed "scripts" (to open a document, read/write an email, etc) and try and discover things by herself. Perhaps this is an age thing; at some point, some people can't integrate a new paradigm?

One of my grandad struggles to deal with word, the other installed skype and found grey market dealers for some goods

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#202

Post by scarface74 »

Sharparam wrote: post #147
wildrhythms wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in an apartment complex and park my car on the premises. I'm not allowed to change my oil on the property due to the landlord's fear of oil left on the parking surface, don't have anywhere to safely store tools or jacks to change a brake pad, and have no where to keep a half-used container of washer fluid outside of my living space (and I'd rather not keep it in my living space). That said, I know how to do al…

Here we have self-service maintenance/cleaning places for cars (often at gas stations). So if you don't have your own driveway/garage you can rent some space and have access to tools and a place to do maintenance.

I’m sure if you find a nice farmer you can also pick up a chicken, manually snap it’s neck (seen it done before, my grandfather had a farm) and cook it yourself...

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#203

Post by zbentley »

anieberry wrote: post #173
johnchristopher wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal pet peeve of mine is the Visual Studio Code and Windows Terminal Preview configuration. The first one has a JSON flat file to store settings and you have to dig the documentation or compare the original file to change something (this level of discoverability is akin to reading the source code but it's an electron map, not dwm). Later on they bolted some kind of semi-automatic UI on top of it but it doesn't h…

I absolutely love the VSC way of doing things, it means you can backup all your settings in a single JSON file. The UI they've built on top of it seems to work well enough too and is quickly searchable.

Strongly disagree. I don't want to have to think about structured data or syntactic validity, or trust a magical autocomplete to show me what options are available (and if it doesn't, does that mean it's a freetext preference? Or the autocomplete is broken? Or I invalidated the syntax somewhere else in the file and it no longer knows what I'm trying to do?) when I'm trying to configure software.

Configuration is not like building things. Unless I'm truly tinkering for fun, I usually have a goal in mind. Like, sure, I have to mess around with program code and structured data formats all the time. I'm pretty good at it. But when I want to [re]configure something about my IDE or terminal, I want to be in and out as fast as possible and basically not have to think about it; configuration is a brief diversion not an end in itself.

I'd be less entitled and ranty if these were CLI/unix internal tools we're talking about. The convention with that ecosystem is config files and manpages to learn how to use them. Given that convention and the resources of the OSS community it would be silly to insist on GUIs there (though some do exist!). But Windows Terminal and VS are graphical programs that are made by a GUI-first software company with basically unlimited resources. Come on.

Also, re: backup and restore, "export" or "store configuration at so-and-so path" are far better options--see iTerm2's config export/sync-via-dropbox-or-whatever option; coupled with that terminal's excellent preference UI, it makes config management a breeze, and that software was mostly developed by one person!

/rant

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#204

Post by paol »

sedachv wrote: post #113
baroffoos wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its also interesting how much of what we consider an "easy to use UI" actually just means "Its what I already know". I have been using linux with gnome for years and I recently had to use a macbook. I wanted to change the sound settings so I opened the global app search thing and typed "Sound" got nothing so I searched "Audio" still nothing so I tried to find the settings app and tried "Settings" still nothing until…

Jef Raskin wrote about this 25 years ago: https://www.asktog.com/papers/raskinintuit.html

Thank you for posting that, its nice to see an "authority" validating something that I've often felt the need to point out: people tend to misattribute to ease of use what is merely familiarity.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#205

Post by galangalalgol »

poizan42 wrote: post #197
userbinator wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newer versions of MS Office (with that ribbon) have the same problem. There is an About dialog, but getting to it is a process that I still can't remember after having to do it a few times. Yet Help->About is still in my mind after all these years, despite not using it all that much. The idiotic full screen save menu that forces you to click a few more times to save on the computer instead of a cloud service (I'm sur…

It's at File->Account->About . Because it totally makes sense to put the about box under Account... I should also mention that there isn't even a Help menu anymore, because nobody would have a need for help with anything in Microsoft Office, right? You can still get help if you know about F1 though.

Office left all the keyboard shortcuts the same, at least in excel. Some of the combos hardwired into my fingers are based on menus that no longer exist, but they still work. I don't know if that was good design or not, but i like it.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#206

Post by rienbdj »

agent008t wrote: post #150
_the_inflator wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GUIs of old had a specific design language. Like: File, Edit, Window, Help in the menubar -- always consistent, always in the same order, and always containing the same thing. Min/max/close buttons in the upper-right. Mistake #1: Windows != GUI Apple has/had another design language. But Apple got it more right. Ironically Steve Jobs fulfilled Bill Gates mission (~a computer in household) with the iPhone. Mistake #2…

A Linux/Windows computer in a household is a device that allows both consuming and creating. Many, if not most of us got into creating using a computer just by having access to one and being curious. An iPhone or an iPad is just a device for consumption. It completely hides, if not locks you out of, the underlying workings of the device, meaning that you learn nothing and you create nothing.

you have a very narrow idea of what creating is. non programming tasks don't require low level system access.

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#207

Post by 0xDEFC0DE »

fragmede wrote: post #91
t34543 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve got 20 years in tech and I find products like Snapchat extremely difficult to use. It’s NOT intuitive at all. Is it just me, or is it terrible?

This is the information age. Just Google it. I don't meant that flippantly. One of their best features, the Snap Map, is nigh undiscoverable. But after seeing someone else use it and being unable to figure out how to access it, Google was able to tell me. It's absolutely a failure of their UX but say, what's the discoverability of regexps with and without Google? Jira also suffers from the same problem - it's often f…

It's hilarious watching engineers give up on a mobile app and then go right back to fixing bugs in complicated code

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#208

Post by raxxorrax »

userbinator wrote: post #185
EliRivers wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learned very thoroughly that the software version details were under "Help -> About". If it's not there, I'm not only stumped; I'm genuinely angry. That doesn't have to be logical; emotional reactions happen by themselves. Making me angry with your software is not good for sales. Running on my desktop this very second; Postman. "Help" has no about. It has a "Check for Updates", but that doesn't tell me my current v…

Newer versions of MS Office (with that ribbon) have the same problem. There is an About dialog, but getting to it is a process that I still can't remember after having to do it a few times. Yet Help->About is still in my mind after all these years, despite not using it all that much. The idiotic full screen save menu that forces you to click a few more times to save on the computer instead of a cloud service (I'm sur…

You should be glad that you still have any save menu, as they wanted to scrap that in favor of autosave.

Everything coming out of MS the last 5 years has been thoroughly underwhelming, but the UI development and user infantilization takes the cake.

Just image everyone in your company saves any document they opened automatically. How would these even look like after 1-2 weeks?

The decision processes at Microsoft cannot be explained by cocaine alone anymore...

Sorry for the rant, let's just say I understand your frustration...

Re: The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think (2016)

#209

Post by t34543 »

fragmede wrote: post #91
t34543 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve got 20 years in tech and I find products like Snapchat extremely difficult to use. It’s NOT intuitive at all. Is it just me, or is it terrible?

This is the information age. Just Google it. I don't meant that flippantly. One of their best features, the Snap Map, is nigh undiscoverable. But after seeing someone else use it and being unable to figure out how to access it, Google was able to tell me. It's absolutely a failure of their UX but say, what's the discoverability of regexps with and without Google? Jira also suffers from the same problem - it's often f…

My point isn’t that I can’t figure it out, it’s that it’s painful to use. Someone is paid to be in charge of the ui/ux, their objective is mysterious because it’s not usability.
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