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Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

wsj.com

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Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#41

Post by ThrustVectoring »

_9vpl wrote: post #16
webkike wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. They taste better 2. Yes, they are easier to get, for a couple reasons: once you have a juul you only need juul pods, and additionally you don't need to purchase a lighter (which you need to be over eighteen a lot of places to purchase). edit 3. They are far more discreet (you can vape in a classroom if you are in the back and it is dark) and deliver more nicotine.

How are purchasing juul pods any different than cigarettes?

I believe that most teens buy juul pods from peers, so network penetration is its own facilitating factor. Furthermore, the price differential between wholesale and word-of-mouth high school black market is likely high enough to drive a pretty brisk trade.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#42

Post by webkike »

okcando wrote: post #36
webkike wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you don't need to purchase a lighter to use them and they last longer.

Lighters are inexpensive, common, and last a long time. Juul pods are age-restricted consumables, just like cigarettes. I think the lack of odor, more agreeable flavors, and less health or social stigma are more important. I doubt e-cigarettes differ much from cigarettes in how easy it is to get ahold of when underage, although perhaps adults are more willing to sell them to or buy them for teenagers on the belief th…

Sure, but it is still non trivial for teenagers to get lighters in California (where my experience comes from).

The lighter is the juul itself. The cigarettes are the juul pods.

A juul lasts longer than a lighter.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#43

Post by bsder »

t-writescode wrote: post #39
bsder wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is it easier to buy juul pods than a pack of cigarettes? There are non-nicotine pods. And they have all of the social addictiveness even if they don't have actual nicotine in them.

if there’s no nicotine, then who cares? Magic the Gathering cards and pogs were addicting back in the day, but kids could still buy them.

MtG doesn't have any health downsides other than possibly being a marker for being too sedentary. Vaping has direct health consequences over "not vaping" even without nicotine.

The "safety" of vaping is predicated on being compared to "smoking cigarettes". If a bunch of non-smokers picks up vaping, that calculus evaporates.

Consequently, selling vaping to a non-smoking, teenage market should come under extreme scrutiny.

In addition, everything about the vaping experience is designed to be addicting. I had a friend who believed exactly as you do until he tried one of the flavored, non-nicotine pods. They have a very strong attraction.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#44

Post by sbilstein »

One thing that gets lost in Juul and vaping supporters is just how bad nicotine addiction is for your personal life. I recently quit nicotine a few months ago and it made a big difference for me.

Nicotine withdrawal kicks in very quick which is why smokers take constant breaks. The anxiety, the grumpiness, irritability and anger you feel as a smoker when you are without nicotine will piss off your partner, make you seem difficult to friends and colleagues and generally just color your world in a dark way.

Juul pods helped me stop smoking for a short period of time but I became an order of magnitude more hooked on nicotine. I work from home and couldn't go more than 15 minutes without sucking on that stupid device.

I quit smoking cold turkey 90 days and it's made a dramatic difference to my mood. I no longer worry about being socially outcast or being judged for blowing vape clouds.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#45

Post by lighthazard »

webkike wrote: post #37
lighthazard wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes.. but they need to source that juul pod somehow - a lighter isn't really an obstacle point for smoking..

In California when I was a teenager six years ago it certainly was an obstacle.

I'm sorry, I meant a lighter isn't an obstacle to smoking. You can use a household stove lighter, a match, a car cigarette thing.. there are lots of opportunities.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#46

Post by flatline »

webkike wrote: post #37
lighthazard wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes.. but they need to source that juul pod somehow - a lighter isn't really an obstacle point for smoking..

In California when I was a teenager six years ago it certainly was an obstacle.

As someone who used to get lighters as a teenager just to have one, without using it to smoke (though in my later teens I smoked), I find this fascinating. Are smaller matchbooks also prohibited? Like others have mentioned, I never had trouble starting a fire as a teenage boy, it's like this inborn survival instinct.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#47

Post by lsniddy »

sbilstein wrote: post #44

One thing that gets lost in Juul and vaping supporters is just how bad nicotine addiction is for your personal life. I recently quit nicotine a few months ago and it made a big difference for me. Nicotine withdrawal kicks in very quick which is why smokers take constant breaks. The anxiety, the grumpiness, irritability and anger you feel as a smoker when you are without nicotine will piss off your partner, make you s…

i was a tobacco user for roughly ten years, equivalent of 2-5 cigarrettes a day max. The month i picked up a juul that amount effectively 10x'ed. I feel bad for all these kids who are going to leave high school with a stronger nicotine tolerance and dependence than some 40 year chain smokers.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#48

Post by AdamHede »

w3rhn2j34oh5o wrote: post #22
save_ferris wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely disagree, investigating vaping companies for targeting kids is absolutely worthwhile. Big tobacco was prohibited from advertising is various media for creating characters like Joe Camel, only to circumvent the spirit of the law via the internet. Vaping is killing kids, how is this not a valid use of resources?

It really isn't killing kids, and I would challenge that they are 'targeting them'. As an adult vape user, I love the fruit flavors. They are for my (adult) use only. I would never let someone under 21 get access to this. Why should I be penalized because lots of kids are breaking the law? The recent (adult) deaths from Vaping are due to black market THC cartridges filled with vitamin e acetate. It is very likely the…

If you don't think fruity flavors target kids as at least collateral damage, will you tell me this is classical marketing aimed at your (adult) age group? https://s3-prod.adage.com/s3fs-public/styles/width_1024/publ...

Also, no nicotine product is (safe). There is no safe amount. In my opinion, we should just work towards a smoke-free future.

The analog to alcohol is a bit of a whataboutism. Just because alcohol is bad, doesn't justify smoking.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#49

Post by bobwaycott »

webkike wrote: post #42
okcando wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lighters are inexpensive, common, and last a long time. Juul pods are age-restricted consumables, just like cigarettes. I think the lack of odor, more agreeable flavors, and less health or social stigma are more important. I doubt e-cigarettes differ much from cigarettes in how easy it is to get ahold of when underage, although perhaps adults are more willing to sell them to or buy them for teenagers on the belief th…

Sure, but it is still non trivial for teenagers to get lighters in California (where my experience comes from). The lighter is the juul itself. The cigarettes are the juul pods. A juul lasts longer than a lighter.

A juul vaporizer does last longer than a lighter, but at a significantly higher cost. Lighters cost a buck or two and last for hundreds and hundreds of cigarettes. The juul vaporizer is also just as easy to misplace/lose as a lighter. As a former CA teen, lighters were absolutely trivial to get—and far less hassle than getting a juul vaporizer. Hell, you can find matches pretty damn easily, too.

Edit: Assuming the average teenager has limited funds, a lighter and pack of cigarettes is far cheaper than a juul vaporizer and pack of pods. Even once you have the juul, the pods are still more expensive than buying a new lighter and cigarettes in many areas.

Re: Federal Prosecutors Conducting Criminal Probe of Juul

#50

Post by dmix »

sbilstein wrote: post #44

One thing that gets lost in Juul and vaping supporters is just how bad nicotine addiction is for your personal life. I recently quit nicotine a few months ago and it made a big difference for me. Nicotine withdrawal kicks in very quick which is why smokers take constant breaks. The anxiety, the grumpiness, irritability and anger you feel as a smoker when you are without nicotine will piss off your partner, make you s…

Juul seems to have higher nicotine content than most of the traditional vaping juices. Even the new reusable nicotine salt devices.

It's also pretty gross and strong by comparison IMO. But I guess it's for people who just stopped smoking cigarettes which is similarly harsh whenever I try them now.

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